Food for thought from Spokane, WA
This is a discussion on Food for thought from Spokane, WA within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is word-for-word from the wife who went through this. I say that because I don't want this to turn into a debate about her ...
January 30th, 2014 10:30 PM
Food for thought from Spokane, WA
This is word-for-word from the wife who went through this. I say that because I don't want this to turn into a debate about her references to faith.
What can we as armed citizens learn from this true situation?
Here is her quote from her blog. This took place a few days ago in downtown Spokane.
Monday night, January 27th, my husband had a surprise for me. I had a really horrible day of pain You see, both of us have chronic disease, and we like to celebrate any good news we have. He wanted to tell me that Actemera, the drug that I am on for rheumatoid arthritis bas become a sub-cutaneous drug.
This is an important development for us, because now I don’t have to go to the clinic to get infused. This change represents a big change in a way of life for me. We decided to go out and celebrate my newfound freedom in life.
We went to the Steam Plant to celebrate. We love the great food and drinks.
We shared some steamers for an appetizer, had a good dark beer and then split the curry chicken entrée for our main course. It was hurried because I needed to get back home and in bed. But was good.
Palmer had parked along Lincoln street, and being a gentleman, went out to get the minivan to pick me up curbside. It was then that he ran into a group of teenagers as he recalls, maybe 15 of them. He felt apprehensive having to get down the stairs around all of them.
He got in our minivan and circled the block to pick me up. I got in and was putting on my seatbelt when we pulled in the alley. There the gang of teenage thugs was waiting for us. We waited for them to pass as they encircled the van. Once they cleared from the front of the minivan, we started to head home. The gang had a different idea.
Before we had moved a few feet, one of them slammed something against the rear of our minivan. I jumped. Palmer stopped. And I rolled down my window to see what was going on. A tall, skinny kid with big gauge earrings, a black jacket with yellow stripes down the arms, leaned into the window and screamed an accusation at us.
I knew it was untrue, because I was looking in the side mirror as we were slowly pulling out. We were concerned that there had been damaged, so both Palmer and I stepped out of the minivan to make sure everything and everyone was alright. I closed the door and we both walked around the back. Palmer was on the driver side, and I on the passenger side. These thugs immediately pressed into us without fear or hesitation, daring us to defend ourselves. They had no respect or fear of the law or consequences. They were out for blood.
Then one of the thugs, a big angry young man, who appeared to be high on something, postured up, chest bumping, and pushed into my husband. He was in Palmer’s face shoving him into the back of the van, while Palmer was warning him to calm down and back off. I knew that something was perilously wrong and that something horrible was happening. This 6 foot, 2 inch 245 pound predator clenched his fist tight, and began assaulting my husband with a flood of punches. Palmer was desperately trying to protect himself from the blows. His immediate objective became to get in close, wrap him up, get him to the ground, holding him until the police arrived.
The 10-15 other assailants converged on my husband. They were darting in and out, yelling and cursing mercilessly punishing my husband, to get him to release his hold. I knew they were going to kill him. They were punching his face, the back of his head, and kicking his face and head. They seemed to come out of nowhere. All of them were in a frenzy, sucker punching him, while he held down the ringleader. Palmer’s blood was gushing all over the ground. There was so much blood.
I did everything that I could to keep them off of my husband, I remember grabbing a t-shirt and trying to haul one of them off of him, and putting myself between whoever seemed to be the biggest threat. It was terrifying. Please imagine yourselves in our position. A grandma and grandpa jumped by teen thugs for no reason. Nobody wanted to get involved with these underage criminals. It was as if everyone in Spokane knew that these teenagers abuse and murder whoever they want and it’s best to just leave them to it.
A giant teenager, who claimed to be the ringleader’s brother, came up from behind and started bashing Palmer’s head. I was horrified at how much of my husband’s blood was pouring from his face and head onto the pavement. I tried to intervene, but was thrown to the ground. He then stooped over my husband, looked him in the eye and told him, “I am going to count to three, if you don’t let go, I’m gonna kill you. By jumping on your back, grabbing your head, and snapping your neck.” He then proceeded to do just that. I was the only person who might be able to stop this young man from breaking my husband’s neck.
I got up and grabbed him by the shirt collar in the back, and started yanking for all I was worth. It wasn’t moving him at all. So I began kicking him in the back with my boot heel. I got in maybe 3-4 kicks before backed off a few steps. Teenagers were everywhere screaming and yelling all kinds of things. I was terrified.
Palmer was still on the ground holding the ringleader. The thug who threatened him came back and yelled to us, “I’m going to count to three, if you don’t let him up, I am going to do something that will make you very, very sorry.” He began counting, stepped back a few steps, and began to reach both hands to his back waistband in the drawing position. My heart stopped. I knew this young man was about to kill my husband in downtown Spokane, with no other reason than pure range.
I leapt over my husband, and got up into this punks face. I could smell his breath, his greasy hair, and can remember his countenance twisted in range.
I said, “Over my dead body!!”
He screamed, you don’t know me!”
I was nose to nose with him, and said as calmly as possible, “You don’t know ME son! You have completely miscalculated me!”
At that moment another teen across the drive started yelling at me, “I’m gonna sue you! I’m 16 and pregnant!” It was such an odd thing to say, I looked over towards her.
The young man who I was just confronted ran over to another teen and took his longboard. He ran back over to my husband screaming, “You’re killing my brother, your killing my brother!” He then raised the longboard up, and was about to strike my husband’s head. I yelled, “He’s just holding him, he’s just holding him.”
Just then, The Spokane Police arrived.
We want to thank the Spokane Police Department for saving our lives. Due to their quick action, there was not another murder on the news, committed by Spokane teens. I want to personally thank Officer Reese for stepping in when we were in the fight of our lives.
I have 23 kids, and 18 grandkids, and they still have a grandpa because of their quick action. We thank them.
We would like for this to be worth something. Our hope is that what we endured will actually be the start of something that will begin to take our streets back, so that nobody in the future has to endure what we endured. What happened to us wasn’t right. I’m convinced that there are things that can be done to begin to change the situation.
---- end quote
Last edited by Rock and Glock; January 31st, 2014 at 10:01 AM.
January 30th, 2014 11:17 PM
"...so both Palmer and I stepped out of the minivan..." The BIG mistake.
"...Our hope is that what we endured will actually be the start of something that will begin to take our streets back, so that nobody in the future has to endure what we endured. What happened to us wasn’t right. I’m convinced that there are things that can be done to begin to change the situation..."
I now wonder what "things" she believes "can be done" to change "the situation". You both got your butts kicked, local PD "stepped in" (maybe did something, or not).
Seems like pointless writing to me, if she can't define "the things that can be done to begin to change the situation". I have my thoughts, does she?
Retired Deputy- State Trooper (38 long years) 8 yrs RTO - MS Degree- Criminology
Gun Control measures are Unconstitutional Infringements. Period.
"...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one"- Luke 22:36
January 30th, 2014 11:23 PM
They have asked the city to create an ordinance banning the loitering of minors in groups larger than 5. I think that's really strange, myself.
I agree - getting out of the van was mistake numero uno.
January 31st, 2014 02:59 AM
First mistake was not having a gun to protect themselves and relying on the police to do it for them.
January 31st, 2014 03:35 AM
Getting out was first blunder. Husband armed, wife armed, inside van, totally different outcome. Messier to clean up maybe but better than being beaten half to death.
Lucky both werent killed long before PD ever got there. Glad the two are still alive and kicking though.
As far as an ordinance??? Im not from there but Im pretty sure being attacked by multiple thugs bloodied and threatened with death is already against the law there. For whatever that is worth.
You dont have to believe a train is coming. Itll run over you anyway.
January 31st, 2014 03:50 AM
I do not understand why this was posted on DC...........? Strange. Just sayin...............................
January 31st, 2014 03:54 AM
Wow, I couldn't possible disagree more strongly! Having a gun is no substitute for having a clue. They NEVER should have got out of the vehicle. From you locked car you can dial 911, they can handle the "medical emergency" if necessary.
Originally Posted by D_FIN
Don't get me wrong- I fully support CCW and carry myself. But having a gun doesn't make you ten feet tall and bulletproof, nor is it guaranteed to get you out of every situation you might get yourself into.
"When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” - Naguib Mahfouz
January 31st, 2014 04:21 AM
Here two decent folks were trying to do the right thing (stop, assess and aid) and get preyed on.
Every 3-4 months we have to take our son to the children's hospital a few blocks from where that couple was attacked. We stay overnight and carry concealed at all times when there. My wife and I have the same .380 and the last time I asked her "How many extra mags should we take" she answered "All of them". Fifteen attackers! I guess the next time I will take my full sized 9mm with 17+1.
January 31st, 2014 06:40 AM
These folks are from Spokane, and Washington, along with Oregon has become a haven of sorts for citizens that truly are "sheep" in the worst possible senses of the word. Many of the folks from the "Left Coast" have bought unthinkingly into the concepts of believing in the total goodness of humankind, "it can't happen here", and its the Police's job to protect us--thus we can live blissfully unaware.
It does make sense to post this in the scenario section here on DC, as we discuss what our options would be if we find ourselves in a similar situation. Which, I might point out, our own member NickBurhardt, in the post above, confirms, from his own personal experience, that this incident is not far out of line with the area--since they have to go there several times a year.
I dare say, that OUR discussions of how to respond in this situation might be, umm, vastly different from the sheep response of the woman who had this horrendous experience.......
I still think its a good exercise in discussion and situational analysis.
Scott, US Army 1974-2004
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan
January 31st, 2014 09:07 AM
Wife to husband: "What was that noise?"
Husband to wife: "Just a speed bump dear."
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
January 31st, 2014 09:13 AM
January 31st, 2014 09:32 AM
Never get out of the car , if they are creating that much havoc call the police and keep moving .
January 31st, 2014 09:39 AM
1. Never get out of the car. Wife confirmed that she could see that husband hit no one.
2. Simply drive off if you can.
3. If you cant drive off, (without incident), because they have you hemmed in, fish tail that thing and run over whoever is stupid enough to think that they will prevent you from leaving.
January 31st, 2014 09:48 AM
To "never get out of the car" and "call the police with the doors locked", I'll add "ok, if you're out of the car never voluntarily go down to the ground to wrestle one out of a gang of thugs." Because getting kicked in the head isn't fun. If you go down, you get back up as quickly as possible or you're asking to stay down permanently.
January 31st, 2014 10:02 AM
There are just too many mistakes in this whole story to begin to list them. It starts with their selection of restaurants, and continues after dinner:
and then "as he circled the block and parks and then pulls out to leave with his wife":
He felt apprehensive having to get down the stairs around all of them.
when we pulled in the alley
Ir probably starts before that. He should have returned to the restaurant and asked for an employee to come out with him to help his wife when he was curbside.
It snow-balled in the alley.
They are lucky to be alive.
From a September, 2013 news feed:
So, they failed on several points, as did the Steam Plant Grill (for not having some "folks on the street" to help customers), and the "surge" didn't work.
SPOKANE, Wash. -
All this week the Spokane Police Department has been flooding the downtown area (where the Steam Plant Grill is located)
with officers in response to complaints from businesses that street kids are assaulting customers and damaging property.
This week a lot of Spokane police have been spending at least part of their day or night shift patrolling the downtown area. Even the department's top brass is down here trying to figure out why the core of our city has become such a popular hangout for either homeless or disconnected teens.
"Also try to make contact with any potential problems or people creating quality of life issues in the downtown area," Spokane Police Lieutenant Justin Lundgren said.
Fails on many levels. There are many lessons here, folks.
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