What am I doing wrong?

This is a discussion on What am I doing wrong? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi everyone, I have been reading these threads for awhile, as I inherited guns from my grandfather and have a question that I was hoping ...

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Thread: What am I doing wrong?

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    New Member Array mtimbrook71404's Avatar
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    What am I doing wrong?

    Hi everyone, I have been reading these threads for awhile, as I inherited guns from my grandfather and have a question that I was hoping someone may be able to help with.

    In 2008 I inherited a few rifles, a Ruger Security Six .357 revolver, a Mauser HSc American Eagle .380 and a Rohm RG10 .22. Of these guns I regularly shoot the .357 and sometimes the .380 and am very accurate up to at least 10 yards. I used to go to the range 4-6 times a year until 2013 when I purchased a membership and have been going more frequently (2-4 times a month). I decided to buy a new Semi Automatic pistol for our myself and my wife since she can't really handle the Mauser and the .357 intimidates her a little. She really liked the Glock 27 but I felt the frame was to small (the Mauser already bites the Web of my hand), and a .40 caliber has more recoil compared to a 9mm so I bought her/us the Glock 19 9mm.

    I received it last week and have been to the shooting range a few times now, sending over 500 rounds through the gun already (bought it new). Here comes my problem...

    I am having trouble being accurate with this gun. I hit exactly where I am aiming (within half an inch) about 40-50% of the shots fired. The rest are usually 3-8 inches lower than I aimed (or worse). This is hard for me to accept because with my .357 I am dead on 99.9% of the time in Single Action and 98% of the time in Double Action. I wanted this gun to be our Primary home defensive weapon as it has magazines and holds 10+1, but I am scared I couldn't trust my aim at this point. I am not a beginner in shooting but I am nothing close to an expert so I was hoping some of the experts on here may be able to guide me in the right direction. I wanted to go for my CCW license on this gun soon , but again how can I carry something that I miss my target on over 50% of the time?!?! I have never bought a gun, just had a few inherited so is this just "new gun syndrome" and with practice I can be as accurate as I am with the revolver? Or is there something I am missing? I live the gun by the way...

    Thank you very much for any responses!
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    Array gasmitty's Avatar
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    Any chance you can have have someone video you from a few different angles while you shoot?
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    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
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    Welcome from Savannah


    This may help http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr...tion_right.gif
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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    The old men would say you're anticipating and breaking your wrist down. Also, the Glock's sights suck.

    Dry fire, or get some snap caps and dry fire. Practice at home with the gun empty, and after confirming the gun is empty, and then clearing it again, and then checking one more time that there is no round in the breach, and then re-clear it. Try squeezing so slowly that you're surprised when the pistol fires (both at home and at the range). The other thing you can do is bring it from the ready and just point it at the target without actually getting a sight picture at all. You'll be much worse when you start doing this, but you'll get better quickly, and at close range that's what you should be doing anyway...IMO.

    Better yet, find someone who knows how to shoot and ask them to watch you and help you. It's allot easier to see and correct than take advice over the Internet.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtimbrook71404 View Post
    Ruger Security Six .357 revolver ... Glock 19 9mm.

    I am having trouble being accurate with this gun. I hit exactly where I am aiming (within half an inch) about 40-50% of the shots fired. The rest are usually 3-8 inches lower than I aimed (or worse). This is hard for me to accept because with my .357 I am dead on 99.9% of the time ...
    Two very, very different guns. It's to be expected that they'll behave very differently in a given person's hands, simply based on the different weight, balance, relation of the bore axis to the hands, the recoil signature. All of that can affect timing, specifically on follow-up shots. It's possible the sights are off a bit, one the Glock. But if brand new, it's fairly unlikely.

    See if you can duplicate the issue with a couple other folks as well, that the G19 consistently has POI ~3-8" lower than POA. If you can, then I'd say it's a fair chance the sights are a bit off. Otherwise, likely it's simply you and how your shooting technique, stance and preferences react to the differences in balance, weight, ergos.

    Short of proving out the sights theory, I'd say the best way would be to start at 3-5yds distance and shoot slowly until you can consistently strike within ~2-3" of center. Then, move out another 2-3yds ... then another. Get consistently competent at the shorter distance before moving on to the farther distance. I think you'll find the G19 is a heck of a gun, pretty darned accurate. But, it's much lighter and can jump around much more than, say, a Ruger Security-Six .357 or other similarly larger and heavier revolver. Different animals, and that should generally show up in first-run results at the range. Give it time, you'll likely come around. The G19's a good one, to be sure, presuming you can find a "sweet spot" with stance and technique.

    One suggestion: try a more "athletic" (aggressively forward) grip and stance, with the G19. Get "over" it, as you're preparing to fire. Try a dozen independent, slow-fire shots with this one change. I think you might find the grip angle difference explains at least part of the difference.
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    Ex Member Array SayVandelay's Avatar
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    I go back and forth between a 357 revolver and a 9mm semi auto at the range all the time. When you grip a revolver you're angling your wrist down/ forward more. When I switch to my ppq or a glock 19 it's a more straight up and down grip, and it's hard to transition for the first few rounds. Also I notice the "pumpkin on a post" sight picture works better with my revolvers where my semi autos impact exactly where my front sight is. There's definitely a difference and it's understandable that it would be something to get used to

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    New Member Array Patterson911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtimbrook71404 View Post
    The rest are usually 3-8 inches lower than I aimed (or worse).
    You are anticipating the recoil. Just squeeze the trigger slowly. My drill sergeant always told me that when you are squeezing the trigger it should surprise you when it goes off.

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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    mtimbrook: First off, WELCOME to the forum. Stick around--lots and lots of good information here on this forum.

    The Glock platform is a reasonable weapon--cheap, simple and reliable. However, the triggers on Glocks suck badly!!!

    I does sound like you are "anticipating" the recoil and as you are firing, you are possibly applying downward (and possibly with a forward thrust) pressure as you are firing.

    A simple test is to use a sandbag--place the sandbag on the table/flat surface at the range and rest the barrel of the pistol on the sandbag while having your appropriate sight-picture (in other words--as your sights are aligned properly on your target, and there should be NO GIVE under your gun barrel as it rests completely on the sandbag,). Then slowly, carefully fire two to three mags, making sure that the pistol continues to rest completely on the sandbag and your sight picture stays the same. If the groups remain tight, then you know that the problem is you.

    If your wife is at the range with you, have her load a bunch of mags, some with 1 or 2 rounds, and then insert a red "snap cap" dummy round, some with 5 or 6 and some fuller--then allow HER to load the mag and then hand you the gun (so you don't know how many rounds are in it), you may find yourself "flinching" or anticipating when you hit the dummy round.......

    Good shooting!!!
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I've been shooting 35 years and have always been able to pretty much pick up most ANY handgun and shoot it well except for Glocks. I don't really know why other than the grip angle is awkward for me and I hate the hump in the back of the grip. The sights also don't do it for me either. I've had a few Glocks, and still have one, and no matter how much I try it just stinks for me. So I don't use it. Revolvers (large and small, DAO, etc.), tiny 380s, tiny 9mms, subcompact 40 cal, can shoot them all dead on accurate...Glocks, forget about it for me...not even close. So, it's not just you. There's something about it that doesn't fit you. What or why, who knows. Find something that works for you and stick with it. For me, the Springfield XD and XDm are both very natural shooters.
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    First off, welcome to the forum.

    Not a Glock person, but from talking with those who are, I've been told that learning to shoot the Glock accurately takes practice. I'd suggest you follow the advise Chaplin Scott gave you. Odds are it is you and not the gun that is the problem. Once it is determined it isn't the gun, practice...practice....practice.
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    New Member Array Glencho's Avatar
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    I would agree with most others here. Most likely it's anticipating recoil. Happens pretty subconsciously atleast for me. Now I'm able to catch it when I'm doing it. The good news is it sounds like your in the proper vertical line for your shots.

    Especially with a new gun to me, I like to bench shoot it first where my hand are supported. This way I can prove to myself the gun shoots true to aim and find out if it may shoot a little off in a direction. Then when not at the bench I can determine what is me missing the shot and the guns natural tendencies.

    The solution for me like others have said, slow pull and surprise me shots. Also have a friend stand a step behind you and to the left. Have them watch the front sight. They should be able to see/tell you if your dropping the muzzle before the discharge. This is what helped me to be able to better see when I was breaking the wrist because as I said, it can feel like I pulled just fine sometimes but my partner was able to confirm my shot was low because I broke my wrist.


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    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    I agree that anticipation is probably the cause, but check one other thing. when you shoot is the first shot on target? It could be that the gun squirms in your hand on firing and needs to be regripped often. I find myself doing that with auto pistols that have long trigger pulls. DR
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    Member Array neko's Avatar
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    Same for me. Which is why I sold my first Glock a few weeks after purchasing it. I have tried so many semi autos, including the plastic ones, and always come back to the 1911. It is the design that I shoot the best and most accurately. Which is why I own about a dozen of them now. Not saying they are for everyone. But for me, nothing else comes close.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    I agree that anticipation is probably the cause, but check one other thing. when you shoot is the first shot on target? It could be that the gun squirms in your hand on firing and needs to be regripped often. I find myself doing that with auto pistols that have long trigger pulls. DR
    Good point.

    On guns with grips that don't fit me really well, particularly large than preferred ones, I find the gun can shift in my hand over a few shots. This can definitely affect POI, if not corrected.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glencho View Post
    The solution for me like others have said, slow pull and surprise me shots.
    Another good tip. With any new-to-me sidearm, this is always what I do first. Slow fire, one shot at a time, focusing on the fundamentals. Once I'm confident the gun's behaving well and I know how it's behaving, then I broaden the testing ... but not until then. Else, it's hard to know what's going "wrong" (balance, sights, my grip, flinching/anticipation, whatever).
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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Try shooting off a rest first and see if that corrects your problem. Do very slow trigger press while making sure the front sight stays on target. The trigger break should be a surprise. If you shoot accurately like that, then it isn't the gun.

    Like others have suggested, it is either your anticipation of the recoil, or grip issues.

    I personally don't like Glocks, they are good guns, just not for me. I can shoot them perfectly fine, just don't like them.

    Good luck with getting this resolved.
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    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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