This really irritates me...

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Thread: This really irritates me...

  1. #1
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Angry This really irritates me...

    In general, to see/read/hear the unwritten rule that it is better to leave a place that you have every right to be, whether it is in a park at a picnic, or at a shopping mall, etc, than to stand up to some thug/troublemaker/scumbag, to avoid any type of confrontation. I am sorry, but even if I were not LEO, I cannot see myself retreating from somewhere I have a legitimate right to be at the time, and it irritates me to think that law abiding citizens are expected to do so. "Just give them what they want and don't fight back and they won't hurt you." "Just drop what you are doing and go to the trouble of finding another place to [fill in the blank] to avoid trouble." "Just give in to the predators in one way or another and let them come out on top."

    This is not the way things are supposed to be! The criminals should be afraid of the lawabiding people, not the other way around.

    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

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  3. #2
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    I agree, now just get the law / lawyers/ judges/ jury to agree and we will be all set. Unfortunately, if we have a gun and don't back down, we can be painted as the trouble maker.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    If (very hypothetical!!) every adult was armed, I am sure a lot of BG's would think twice about attempts at crime, particularly when armed.
    "Just give them what they want and don't fight back and they won't hurt you."
    That as we all know is pure unmitigated horse pucky - and yet it is spouted left right and center. Gets old huh!
    Chris - P95
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    Thumbs up Lucky Alabamaians....

    P95,

    I wholeheartedly agree with your statement! Lucky for us in Alabama our Gov. (Bob Riley) just helped push through our 'Castle Doctrine' law. Hence, our 'obligation to retreat' is removed and we are able to defend ourselves whenever we are somewhere we have the legal right to be! (home, vehichle, public....etc..) The castle doctrine also protects an individual from civil actions by the BG's family or others as long as the incident is deemed justified. Hooray for Alabama! Just my .02 as always.....

  6. #5
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    The Old Bull :vs: The Young Bull...

    Quote Originally Posted by Only Glock View Post
    In general, to see/read/hear the unwritten rule that it is better to leave a place that you have every right to be, whether it is in a park at a picnic, or at a shopping mall, etc, than to stand up to some thug/troublemaker/scumbag, to avoid any type of confrontation. I am sorry, but even if I were not LEO, I cannot see myself retreating from somewhere I have a legitimate right to be at the time, and it irritates me to think that law abiding citizens are expected to do so. "Just give them what they want and don't fight back and they won't hurt you." "Just drop what you are doing and go to the trouble of finding another place to [fill in the blank] to avoid trouble." "Just give in to the predators in one way or another and let them come out on top."

    This is not the way things are supposed to be! The criminals should be afraid of the lawabiding people, not the other way around.

    story applies here...I do NOT want to shoot someone in my personal space, but if left with no choice...that's will be a 'done deal'. Now that being said, I would choose to back down, move, apologize, whatever is needed to reduce a potential situation to something less. I was a 'physical' young man in my early days...took some lumps and handed a bunch out too...those days are gone.

    I've learned to look for the simple way out, if possible, walking away is lot easier than it used to be...it's a matter of discretion, experience, and confidence (not much to prove anymore). This old man will take some abuse, will apologize when it's not his fault,...and cut your heart out if you push him too far!

    Let me and mine alone...I seek no prize, no last word...just a peaceful existence...push me over that line and I will give you a 'quick' war you won't forget!

    Life is too short, and getting shorter...I don't wish to make someone else's even shorter...but those arrangements can be made!

    OMO

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret
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    Senior Member Array razorblade's Avatar
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    Trust me OG, I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. It's hard for me to understand why every state doesn't have "stand your ground" law. It makes so much common sense. In Virginia, we (as CHP owners) have to make every effort to avoid or de-escalate a confrontation, unless our life was in immidate danger. Also, can't shoot someone over proptery. So if Joe Thug runs off with my new plasma screen TV, I can't go plugging away. I grew up in an enviornment where you treat others the way you want to be treated, what is goes around comes around, an eye for an eye, and a man's bond was his handsake. Now I have to look at a situation and ask myself "what is the path of least resistance" and in the end, would this be worth the trouble, especially if I can avoid the situation all together?

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    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I've learned to look for the simple way out, if possible, walking away is lot easier than it used to be...it's a matter of discretion, experience, and confidence (not much to prove anymore). This old man will take some abuse, will apologize when it's not his fault,...and cut your heart out if you push him too far!
    To do it as personal choice is one thing... let your conscience be your guide. But to be expected/required to back down and "give in" is just wrong. Maybe I am on my soapbox for some reason, I don't know. Tennessee has no duty to retreat per se, but it seems that society expects it or even demands it. As a LEO, I have no requirement to back down, in fact, I have an obligation under oath NOT to back down/retreat, but even if I were not, I cannot see myself backing down from what is right. Sorry if I am ranting.
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

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    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Razor, I just noticed where you are from. I used to live in Fairfax and my best friend was an Alexandria cop until he went to MPDC. Small world.
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

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    Member Array Smooth23's Avatar
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    Thankfully michigan has stand your ground. To bad we can't shoot over property. Guess its a good thing I've already decided I wouldn't give up property unless my life was at risk anyhow, at which point I'd be more than happy to give them a few .40 cal hydra-shocks.

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    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Kansas also has a 'no duty to retreat' clause on the books. Although, I hate the thought of retreating, I believe I would given the first safe opportunity. If I can avoid a situation and not have to explain my actions under duress to a bunch of Monday morning QBs in suits and uniforms, that is the way to go for me.

    God help the unfortunate assailant that fails to afford me that opportunity.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  12. #11
    Ron
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    I practiced Okinawan Karate for over 20 years and noticed an interesting thing begin to happen as my skills progressed. I began to lose my sense of macho and ego. And by the time I was a third degree black belt, I never hesitated to walk away from a potential confrontation, apologize even when not my fault, retreat from places I had a lawful right to be at, and to basically do whaever it took to keep the peace. I realized that this transformation took place because I knew, with absolute confidence, that, if necessary, I would prevail in a confrontatation and no longer had anything to prove.

    I think that, for me, there is somewhat of an interesting analogy to carrying. Since I am reasonably confident that I can protect myself in almost any situation, I have nothing to prove, and even if not lawfully required to retreat because of an applicable "Castle Doctrine" statute, I have no hesitation in doing so, and/or doing whatever else is necessary to avoid a confrontation.

    Ron

  13. #12
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    Since I am reasonably confident that I can protect myself in almost any situation, I have nothing to prove, and even if not lawfully required to retreat because of an applicable "Castle Doctrine" statute, I have no hesitation in doing so, and/or doing whatever else is necessary to avoid a confrontation.
    Spot on Ron - same here. The main complaint I would have is being mandated to retreat - despite that being probably my prime motivation anyways.

    Should be my choice - driven by circumstance.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Senior Member Array my2cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Only Glock View Post
    Razor, I just noticed where you are from. I used to live in Fairfax and my best friend was an Alexandria cop until he went to MPDC. Small world.
    I lived up there, too. Just off of Fairfax Circle. Worked at Tyson's Corner.
    Walk steathly - and carry a big Springfield.

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    A good tactical retreat is always best for the family there is no need to look for trouble it will usually find you, but Mi just enhanced it's Castle law effective Oct, so retreat is no longer necessary in any area you are legally allowed to be in, car, garage, yard, store, etc.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Only Glock
    This is not the way things are supposed to be! The criminals should be afraid of the lawabiding people, not the other way around.
    The operative word here is "should." What should be, and what is, are all too often very different things. I am not willing to risk going to jail just so I can put a thug in his place, even if that is something I "should" be able to do.

    Of course, laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and first and foremost you MUST know the laws where you carry. Having said that, though, in general society wants you to use your firearm ONLY as a last resort, against a clearly lethal threat, when all other avenues have failed. That may not be "right," that may not be how it "should" be, but that is how it is.

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