Your line in the sand...

Your line in the sand...

This is a discussion on Your line in the sand... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In a recent thread.... http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...-customer.html The topic of a bank robbery came up. BG has his gun out, putting folks on the floor, you are ...

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Thread: Your line in the sand...

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Your line in the sand...

    In a recent thread.... http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...-customer.html

    The topic of a bank robbery came up. BG has his gun out, putting folks on the floor, you are armed, the question is what do you do. I do not want that answer. What I would like to know, is those that said they will do nothing (which is fine) unless the BG starts shooting. If you are proned out, and he starts shooting, what if he starts with YOU...

    Where do you draw the line. Forget the money, forget the bank, you have an individual pointing a gun at you and everyone else. In your Opinion is that not a lethal threat? Do we not carry a weapon to end such threats on our lives? Is going against the drop something not doable? These are just a few questions that came to mind after reading some of the posts in the other thread.

    Please do not take this the wrong way. I am not saying that you have to shoot, or engage in this situation. I am also not saying that if you do, that you have done something wrong. For me on a personal level when the his gun comes out, I will be timing my draw and trying to end the threat. No bravado, no commando, no Operator involved, just good old fashioned, get off me and end the threat....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......


  2. #2
    Member Array FireNerd's Avatar
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    I'll be honest and risk some impingement. If I personally knew one of the tellers, if it was a family member, "one of my own" so to speak I would probably go against the drop. Otherwise, retreat if possible. That's my line.
    They think they don't need firearms because they never have needed them.

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    Retreat if feasible , no family or friends involved. As discretely as possible, draw my weapon and be ready. The robber is waving around a weapon and is looking to make a statement, then I don't want to be a late statement.
    EN MI VIDA AL MAL NO TEMERÉ, POR QUE EN MI CORAZÓN Y MIS DOS .38 SUPER COLT.

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    My line in the sand looks like a sidewinder trail. Lots of room for various responses.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Given the threat and proximity to innocents, this is an occasion where I am comfortable using the kill word in describing my goal. I only want one shot to be fired, and I want it to come from my gun. I don't really need to add that I'm on a long-time first name basis with every employee in my bank.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    My line in the sand looks like a sidewinder trail. Lots of room for various responses.
    I'm going with OldVet's reply. I'm going to cheat, so my line will depend upon a lot of different variables. In one situation, I may stay concealed. Given a another, I may make Rambo seem like a pacifist.
    __________________________________
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array GWarden's Avatar
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    The totality of the situation would dictate my response. Each situation poses its own slightly different situation even if it's same basic scenario.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    i think it would all be driven by the demeanor of the BG. the OP you are referring to stated the BG was "yelling incoherently" and "waving" the gun around.

    This, to me, indicates an unstable, ill-prepared, irrational BG. this guy, to me, is extremely dangerous. this is a guy who WILL start shooting randomly if the teller is taking to long or whatever. if he is agitated from the get go i am probably planning my counter. if he starts escalating and getting even more agitated, i am leaning more and more towards engaging. and in this instance there will be no warnings, no negotiations, no words, just swift actions.

    NOW, if this guy walks in cool, calm, and collected. stays level headed, is watching his perimeter, and generally acting like someone who knows what he is doing, i am less inclined to engage. He is there for money, not murder. he has a plan, he has thought about contigencies, including "Hero Civies", and will likely leave you, and evryone else alone if he gets his cash in an orderly manner.

    So, to me, it will hinge on the BG's demeanor. Crazy unstable guy could start blasting at any moment? as said earlier, i could be his very first target, by sheer dumb luck, so i think being proactive is the order of the day. Totally cool character looks like he's done this before and has a plan? i'm not becoming the contingency he planned for over some insured money.

    my thoughts.

    EDIT- your new "Tiger" looks a lot cooler than your old one Harry. Well done. i like the blue eyes.
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array Longstreet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireNerd View Post
    I'll be honest and risk some impingement. If I personally knew one of the tellers, if it was a family member, "one of my own" so to speak I would probably go against the drop. Otherwise, retreat if possible. That's my line.
    No risk when speaking common sense. Your opinion is shared by most.
    gatorbait51 and molleur like this.

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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Talk is cheap, so I won't bore you. I would like to believe that I would not stand idly by and trust the calm nerves, good will, sober judgment, and mercy of those who have already decided that murder is entirely acceptable in pursuit of stealing money. The fact use of deadly force to protect third parties from "immanent use of unlawful force" is a justifiable use of deadly force in my state does indeed figure into it.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    My point is when the order to tie them up is given. I am not being tied up. If no shots fired and a simple robbery I will hold the door for them. I will be the best witness I can be. The minute a shot is fired I am shooting.

    Now if my wife is with me or family is with me then the situation changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The topic of a bank robbery came up. BG has his gun out, putting folks on the floor, you are armed, the question is what do you do.
    Not trying to be a D-Bag, but I'd approach it as "what COULD you do?" If the gun is pointed directly at me, unless I am the human flash, I'd guess not much. Like scissors beats paper, drawn weapon (usually) beats holstered gun. Guy is focused on someone else or is distracted some other direction, things open up. Hopefully, fear and other situational factors don't impede quick, sure draw, but let's say they don't. Then IT'S ON! Hoping to make the best, cleanest draw you've evah made and the best shot you've ever fired! Probably more than one -- until the (former) threat is down. Then to the bathroom and find an empty stall...
    -- Robert
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  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    You need time, a clear backstop, some cover, and maybe a distraction or diversion. Seek to find these elements and then if escape isn't possible you can act decisively. If you are clearly lacking one or more of these, it's going to be up to luck.
    gatorbait51, BobR1 and shockwave like this.

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    I am not sure any of us can answer your question. Talking about it and living it are two different things. Kind of like bench racing. Everybody talks about how fast there car is. But it is a different story when they go to the track. Then all you hear is excuses. I can talk with my time slip.
    gatorbait51, firerat and ddanf308 like this.
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robhic View Post
    Not trying to be a D-Bag, but I'd approach it as "what COULD you do?" If the gun is pointed directly at me, unless I am the human flash, I'd guess not much. Like scissors beats paper, drawn weapon (usually) beats holstered gun. Guy is focused on someone else or is distracted some other direction, things open up. Hopefully, fear and other situational factors don't impede quick, sure draw, but let's say they don't. Then IT'S ON! Hoping to make the best, cleanest draw you've evah made and the best shot you've ever fired! Probably more than one -- until the (former) threat is down. Then to the bathroom and find an empty stall...
    I do not think your being a D-bag. In my OP I mentioned timing. You described your timing. I appreciate the input...
    gatorbait51 and leprechaun50 like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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