Sunday morning jog gone bad

This is a discussion on Sunday morning jog gone bad within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello I had a situation yesterday that really rattled me and I was looking for some feedback on what I should have done and what ...

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Thread: Sunday morning jog gone bad

  1. #1
    New Member Array PeteH's Avatar
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    Sunday morning jog gone bad

    Hello

    I had a situation yesterday that really rattled me and I was looking for some feedback on what I should have done and what I could do to prevent further issues.

    I started running with my dog about a year ago. We have a simple 3 mile loop and a simple 6 mile loop, neither loop puts us further than three miles from home. I am a 43 year old man with a 5 year old black lab. I compete in triathlons, running, and other endurance events. I'm not a big person but I am in great shape.
    I have had my CC permit for 5 years

    Yesterday, we chose the three mile loop and took off for our morning run. It was about 25* so I was bundled up with my cold weather running gear, a large, heavy hoodie, hat, gloves, etc.
    At the 1.5 mile mark, where we turn around and start the return run I hear some yelling and see two bigger breed dogs running at full sprint toward us. These totally unrestrained dogs ran approx. 50 yds down the owners driveway, darted across the street and pounced on my dog, dropping her to the pavement. It all happened so fast, that by the time I realized what was going on the dogs were on us and I had no time to react. My dog is pinned to the ground, on her back, with me holding her by a 6' leash. I tried to step between my dog and the attacking dogs hoping to give my dog enough time to get to her feet. While stepping between the dogs I remember doing kind of a waving motion with my free hand to clear his dogs out of the way. I never hit, kicked or otherwise touched his dogs, I was just trying to clear some space so my dog could get up. At this point the owner is enraged at me and is telling me he is going to mess me up for hitting his dogs.
    He never made any attempt to restrain his dogs, he immediately went after me in a very physical way. He never actually hit me, but he kept pushing into my personal space, getting in my face to the point where I had to put my hands up to keep him off me and he kept making threats after threats saying what he was going to do to me.

    I told him I was simply out for my morning run and I was NOT looking for trouble. I told him I was leaving and when I got home I was going to call the police and let them sort it out. I grabbed my dogs leash and we took off running toward home, with his dog chasing after us, nipping at our heels. The dogs owner then began chasing after us on foot, yelling at me to stop so he could get his dog. I WAS NOT STOPPING. This guy had made numerous threats against me and I was not going to stop. This guy chased me, my dog and his dog until he ran out of steam. He was screaming at us. This guy was in total meltdown. I would guess he ran about 1/4 mile before he had to stop, his dog made it about another 200 yds. then stopped chasing us.

    We kept running!

    I am now 1/2 mile from home, I have just full out sprinted a full mile at a pace I don't think I have ever hit before. Due to the stress and sprinting, I am exhausted. Little did I realize, when he called off the chase, he went home and got in his truck.
    I'm now exhausted, totally defenseless and 1/2 mile from home, .........here he comes!!!
    He pulls up beside me in his truck and says where the heck is my dog? I said nothing, kept running. He says where is my [epithets deleted] dog you [epithets deleted] cop calling [epithets deleted]. I said I have no idea and kept running. He spouted off a few more threats and names at me, turned around and went to look for his dog.
    I got home and called the police. 15 minutes later an officer arrives at my house and I tell him what happened. The officer asks me if I want him to go talk to the man or just make a report. My decision was to just file a report and try to put the whole situation behind me.


    I learned a few valuable lessons yesterday.
    1. The situation can and will change instantly. I went from a Sunday morning run to what could have been a fight for life in 5 seconds
    2. I will never again run without a minimum of my cell phone with me
    3. For the immediate future I will be running with my LCR in my pocket


    Does anyone have any advise? What should I have done?
    If you were in my situation, and had a firearm, when would you draw, if at all?
    My gut tells me that if I had been carrying I would have had my gun out when he arrived with his truck. By that point I had retreated a full mile, on foot, was out of energy, and was a sitting duck. But I'm still not positive it would have been ok(legal) to draw on the man.
    Last edited by gasmitty; March 24th, 2014 at 10:44 AM. Reason: multiple language workarounds
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  3. #2
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    You should carry your phone when you jog , so then you can call the police at the first moment of the dogs attacking your dog . Also as others will tell you maybe some pepper spray or bear spray for such events .
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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    I run with a cell phone and S&W Shield... bike ride with themo to. I prob would have sent the officer to talk to the guy. IMO he needs to know he was wrong. Others may say you should have been armed, drawn and shot the oncoming dogs. I reserves the gun option for saving people not dogs, that being said, glad you dog is ok! We lost ours just a few weeks ago.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    You did the best you could. But if you start carrying while running, don't run by his house anymore.

  6. #5
    New Member Array PeteH's Avatar
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    I will never again run without my phone. I wasn't concerned about issues like this because I run in my own neighborhood.
    I thought about pepper spray but in this situation I would have needed to use it on the owner, which is only going to make him more mad. Even if pepper spray buys me 5 minutes or flight time, it only puts me approx 1 mile away. A distance easily made up when he's in a truck and I'm on foot.

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    Member Array Enzo411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I run with a cell phone and S&W Shield... bike ride with themo to. I prob would have sent the officer to talk to the guy. IMO he needs to know he was wrong. Others may say you should have been armed, drawn and shot the oncoming dogs. I reserves the gun option for saving people not dogs, that being said, glad you dog is ok! We lost ours just a few weeks ago.
    I don't think there's anything different you could have done.
    I mostly bike and always have a cell phone, Shield and a 2oz. can of Fox Labs pepper spray.
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    Member Array niks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteH View Post
    I will never again run without my phone. I wasn't concerned about issues like this because I run in my own neighborhood.
    I thought about pepper spray but in this situation I would have needed to use it on the owner, which is only going to make him more mad. Even if pepper spray buys me 5 minutes or flight time, it only puts me approx 1 mile away. A distance easily made up when he's in a truck and I'm on foot.
    I'd like to see other's comments, however, I can attest to the fact that a good dose of spray will not have him eager to jump in the truck and continue any pursuit for a while.

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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    My dog wally is 9 now has one blind eye has never peed in the hse even once has never been anything but a joy to us. Two dogs running at him unleashed, they get shot. That would take care of owners aggression toward me. Than call cops.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    They make integrated holsters for runners. There are compression shorts with a built in holster for your piece and phone. Invest. When you think about it, when on foot and covering a lot of ground this IS when you're most vulnerable. I know you've got the dog, but to me the dog is a monkey wrench in an attackers gears rather than your primary means of protection.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    Member Array Norm66's Avatar
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    I think you did everything you could have. The guy was a class A jerk and potentially dangerous.

  12. #11
    Member Array TelumPisces's Avatar
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    Yep, phone and small bug gun on at all times. No reason to go un armed when you excersize. Now whether you felt threatened enough to use deadly force, only you will know that in that particular situation. I get the feeling that you were not there yet. I might have popped me a dog or two though. Which might have sent the owner into even more of a rage. But you have to be prepared.

    I am one of the biggest dog proponents you will meet. But unrestrained dogs are one of my biggest pet peeves and I have come close to giving a few lead treatment. But the worst that has happened so far is a few kicks to the ribs of a few dogs to get them to back off.

    I know my dog. But other dogs, I have no clue about their temperment when they are running full speed at me etc... I had some guy yell at me one time when his dogs were running full speed at me that his dogs were harmless. Well as they are running full speed and barking like crazy, I have no idea about their intentions. When I pulled my shirt up to get my hand on my gun, the guy quickly got up from his chair and restrained his dogs. I promptly told him that unrestrained dogs running at me run a high risk of getting shot. Let's just say that I have not had a problem with these dogs running free anymore.

  13. #12
    Member Array redmc's Avatar
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    I don't run anymore but when I walk my dog I carry a cell phpne, pepper spray and handgun because I've had problems with dogs and owners before.
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    I would be pressing charges.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    You survived that is step one. Second lets look at your actions. What if these were two guys after you and they closed that distance the street is 22 feet wide plus the driveway. You were unable to mount any defense in that distance. Work on your situational awareness. Practice once you have a plan it seems your reaction time could be improved. Remember in shape is one thing but if the mind is not trained along with the body you are only half prepared. Practice your response and make a decision. Can you kill a dog? Can you kill a person over a dog attacking your dog?

    I am not one to get the police involved in my business. I am not going to let anybody run me off my neighborhood either. Only you can answer how to proceed from here. Remember once you pull a gun you have escalated this to a life or death situation. Ask yourself again what would you do you pull your gun and I kill you instantly with my gun. Lives change forever so make the decisions long before the situation arises.

    There is a product we use on the ranch called a prod it comes in small and light weight different lengths and can make a 2K pound bull do what you want. The shock is not lethal but pretty discouraging. It is not a weapon but a defense against animal not human. However they can make a very good burn mark on the skin of a human and make a great club.

    http://www.jefferspet.com/cattle-pro...iv/cc/1101518/
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    I'm sure I wouldn't have been as restrained as you were in your response to being threatened in your face.

    Phone is imperative, could have had the leo's responding to your location by the time he caught up to you.
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    The mind is the limiting factor

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