VIDEO: Man refuses to get back in car or show his hands—gets shot

VIDEO: Man refuses to get back in car or show his hands—gets shot

This is a discussion on VIDEO: Man refuses to get back in car or show his hands—gets shot within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's a video of a recent shooting from an Oregon State Trooper. Ok. Now some of you may claim my threat title was misleading, but ...

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Thread: VIDEO: Man refuses to get back in car or show his hands—gets shot

  1. #1
    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    Question VIDEO: Man refuses to get back in car or show his hands—gets shot

    Here's a video of a recent shooting from an Oregon State Trooper.












    Ok. Now some of you may claim my threat title was misleading, but it's easy to think of this as police brutality until you see the video. But here's some questions.

    What if he had not pulled out the gun and the trooper shot him just before? Would that have been justified?

    What if he had done the exact same thing and the trooper had shot him, but the man had not had a gun and had just been a jerk trying to push the limits of the trooper's commands?

    This is an excellent video for civilians to watch because it shows how quickly things can escalate. Are there unjustified shootings involving LEOs? Absolutely. But hopefully videos like this can clue the public in as to why cops have shot men going for wallets.

    What would you have yourself do in such a situation where he did not have a gun? What would you ask of your brother, sister, wife, husband, son, father? I ask these questions because coppers are all of those things at some point, and as a retired lieutenant once said, "They don't pay me enough to have me wait until shots are already coming towards me, which is what the public really wants me to do."

    P.S. I interact with a large number of Somalis and Hispanics and some from Myanmar who do not understand much English. But when I tell them to show me their hands and gesture, they always do. In my experience, people put out their hands innocently especially when they think a cop is about to get defensive.

    P.P.S. The trooper did not die, and the BG later stopped down the road and bled out after getting hit but not realizing it.
    Last edited by 9mm Lassiter; March 28th, 2014 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Added more information video does not show.
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  2. #2
    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    Now I'll admit, this car stop scenario is also something civilians won't find themselves in, and you also have this guy disobeying lawful orders from an LEO, so if a moderator wants to move this, please do. Don't think anyone's posted this video yet.
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  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Yes, I've seen this before and the officer was fully justified IMO.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Actually the trooper DID get shot - he reported being hit in the side. Presumably his vest stopped it.

    If he had just stood there, no, the officer would not have been justified shooting. I imagine the approved response would be to wait for a second unit to assist him, but I'm no LEO, so I'm just speculating.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

  5. #5
    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    Yes thanks. I corrected my post.

    Everyone will call this justified. But did he have to wait for shots to be fired?

    If it were me, I'd absolutely have my gun ready and pointed at him when he stepped towards me.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    I think any cop should draw down on someone who won't show their hands, period.
    9mm Lassiter, DC, OlCop and 5 others like this.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

  7. #7
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    Appropriate response to what the person did.
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  8. #8
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    The BG demonstrated he would be a problem by holding his hands behind his back and not obeying a clear order from the LEO. I wish we could see the LEO throughout the encounter to see his reactions. My guess is he has a hand on his weapon as he is ordering the BG to get back in the car. The BG crossed the line when he started approaching the LEO and I would imagine that is when the LEO drew. Once the BG started to draw the LEO is clearly more than justified to fire on him.

    Amazing how fast things can get out of hand. I have a lot of respect for LE - they have to deal with some crazy stuff.
    9mm Lassiter and tdave like this.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array Longstreet's Avatar
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    Fully justified. My only complaint to the officer is that he waited as long as he did to fire. If you've never watched the Dinkheller video, be sure to watch it on Youtube to see a nearly textbook example of how NOT to conduct such a traffic stop.

  10. #10
    Member Array 9mm Lassiter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longstreet View Post
    Fully justified. My only complaint to the officer is that he waited as long as he did to fire. If you've never watched the Dinkheller video, be sure to watch it on Youtube to see a nearly textbook example of how NOT to conduct such a traffic stop.
    A good point. I was thinking of that too. In that video you also had verbal threats and it was clear that the man understood the commands.

    With this video, the trooper's gun should already be out. And that adds another point. A man who is going to keep coming towards you when you have your gun out clearly means business and believes he can disarm/kill you. Or he's crazy. And that's a risk too.
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  11. #11
    Member Array Orangeman's Avatar
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    Even crazy shooters know how to shuck and jive while they are shooting so that they won't get shot. We need to put our paper targets on an oscillating fan that moves back and forth, otherwise those static targets do us no good at all.
    CommonCents likes this.
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  12. #12
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    Y'all must be seeing a different vid than the one I saw. The man exited the car and walked toward the trooper. He pulls a gun and some shots are fired. Then he runs back to his car and drives away. Was he captured? Was he shot? I don't know, the vid stopped after that. The suspense is awful, I need to see the rest.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm Lassiter View Post
    Now I'll admit, this car stop scenario is also something civilians won't find themselves in ...
    False.

    Have been in this basic scenario myself, on one occasion. In traffic, at a stoplight. An aggressive-driving, whacked-out person was growing more agitated by the moment, exited his car and began coming back a couple cars toward mine. Never got there, as he decided to turn around, get back into his car as the light changed, and move on. But he was a few moments from being mowed down by the car if he'd continued and drawn on me.

    In fact, we had a situation similar to this posted by someone just in the past month or two. He was in his vehicle, an aggressor was rapidly approaching, and he then decided to exit the vehicle and halt the progression. He was lambasted by some for exiting the vehicle to gain room to maneuver, but it afforded a means to control the situation and have options.

    Granted, non-LEO's aren't in situations very often where others are commanded to lay down their arms and all the rest, but such situations do indeed occur. And when taking control of a situation like this, being violently approached by an attempted murderer, I doubt many folks would behave much differently: you either take control of the situation and protect your very life, or you get eliminated.

    In this case, the LEO was absolutely justified. No doubt. To all such folks who'd threaten innocents ... You want to be a murderer, or masquerade as one? Then you shouldn't be surprised when all the world seeks to put you down during your attempt.
    9mm Lassiter and Aceoky like this.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    My understanding is the man who attacked the Trooper was mentally ill. This does not change what you are doing in real time as I at least will not attempt to administer an MMPI or any other psych exam with some body shooting at me. If you do I would not suggest waiting for the results to be interpreted.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    No this is nothing like many of the other case some of us question. If anything the officer should have fired sooner.

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