I disarmed another person

This is a discussion on I disarmed another person within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey guys just wanted to post what happened to me a few weeks ago. Also to tell people you never know who, what, or where. ...

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    Member Array Djroulette's Avatar
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    I disarmed another person

    Hey guys just wanted to post what happened to me a few weeks ago. Also to tell people you never know who, what, or where. This incident took place at a bar/restaurant. Great news is nobody was injured or killed, my wife now wants to carry everywhere, and I learned/ realized a few things. Bad news is it really could've gone south quickly.

    A little Background- My wife recently changed jobs in October, she has been traveling a ton for training, and other store openings. Being in town for Saint Patrick's day and a few days before and after, a lot of her friends and old co workers all wanted to meet Sunday (3pm), for lunch and drinks. There was a big group (among the group was John soon to be victim), and the number fluctuated throughout the day. Toward the end of lunch a couple joined the party late (Tim [attacker, and also long time old coworker] and soon to be wife Sue). Everyone was still chatting and drinking so they went ahead and ordered food. They were sitting next to my wife and I, so we ended up talking with them a lot. This was my first time meeting them, Tim and I connected on guy things, cars, motorcycles, guns. He showed me a few pictures of his collection and I showed him a few pics of mine. I never told him I was armed. The restaurant was starting to get a little busier and we were having a good time and being loud, so the group decided to move to a bar instead of disturbing the other diners (5pm) The first bar and closest bar we chose was closing at 7pm because it was Sunday. When we arrived, we ordered more drinks (My wife and I decided that I would DD), got some tunes going and played some corn hole (a game commonly found in small bars around here). Throughout the time Tim and Sue kept talking with me and my wife, and eventually in private invited us to their wedding. They said that they didn't really like a whole lot of people that worked with Tim, we told them it sounded like fun and we would be there, so we exchanged numbers and got back to having a good time. The first bar closed and by 7:45 our tabs were closed and we were on our way to the last bar.

    Incident takes place here:
    We arrive at the bar around 8pm, start a tab, everyone was drinking and having a great time. Keep in mind we have drank with the majority of these people several times. My wife has worked with all of them for years, and everybody was having a great time, at some point Tim's fiancee Sue leaves, they drove separate cars and she had to be at work at 5am. Tim stays and continues having a good time.

    Around 10pm the group is dwindling down and my wife decides it is time to go, so I close out the tab. When I return to the table, I notice Tim has his head down and is crying. From what I understand, he randomly started crying, nobody said anything to him. My wife has her arm around him asking what was wrong. On one side of the table sits Tim- my wife- me, directly across from Tim, sits John, then across from my wife and I are 2 others. John was having a conversation with the 2 others. Table Layout:
    John, A, B
    Tim, wife, me
    Tim cries for about 10 minutes. Then Tim aggressively stands up (his chair falls backwards), while he is walking around the table, he pulls a handgun from his waistband, runs the slide to load the gun, puts John in a headlock with gun under his chin, pointing to his head, yelling "Say one more word, one more word."
    At the same time he stands up, I stand up (I was watching the entire time because my wife had her arms around him) by the time I realize there is a gun, he has made it to John. I move to him as he finishes saying his statement above, I place my hands on the gun and I point the gun away from John's head and at Tim's chest. I kept telling him "give me the gun, give me the gun" when he notices the gun is pointed at him, and releases the gun to my possession. At this point I back away, clear the weapon, slide the magazine and chambered round in my left pocket and slide the firearm in my right. (For those curious I immediately recognized the gun it was a Smith and Wesson Siggma.) I turn back around and see that my wife is in front of Tim asking him "what is wrong", So I step in between them and tell Tim to walk outside with me. As we are outside, he is walking backwards starring at the bar and I am in front of him walking forwards and he is starring right past me. He never says a word, but the entire time I am telling him that nothing in that bar is worth him going to jail, he is about to get married, he has 3 beautiful children, ect. We get to his car (Chrysler 300 silver) he sits in the drivers seat, and I tell him "you should take a cab, call someone, or let me take you home (I know mistake, but I was trying to keep him calm) after a few seconds he finally asks:
    TIm: where is my gun?
    Me: I have it.
    Tim: Give it to me.
    Me: I don't think that is a good idea, you're drunk, we can meet tomorrow and I will give it to you.
    Tim: Fine, Ill get my other one. (pops trunk)
    Me: don't do that

    He gets up and walks to the trunk, I follow close behind him. He opens the trunk and uncovers an Ak-47. I push him away and close the trunk. I tell him "if you want your gun back, here" gave him his unloaded gun back, (I know probably biggest mistake) while gripping my holstered G19. He took his gun put it in the center console, and left.

    This entire incident took a total of 10 minutes, the inside part took 10 seconds. It took the police 1 hour to get there, while waiting for the police my awareness was the highest it has ever been. My wife broke down after I told her what happened out by the car and why I pushed him, she asked "what would you have done if he would've grabbed that rifle?" I said " I would've shot him." I also realized my phone was missing, I used "find my iphone" and it was a block away, I guess at some point I placed it on top of his car.

    Some of the bar patrons thanked me, others were telling me what I should've done, and that their gun was in their car. The bartender thanked me and offered to take care of my tab, I refused. I felt bad because he was with our group. When the police showed up I gave him the magazine, chambered round, a statement, and a description of the vehicle and weapons that I knew of. Then went to find my phone, and went home. The victim John decides not to press charges at that time, John was drunk, and said that he doesn't remember what happened. The officer informed him that he had up to a year to press charges. My wife couldn't get to sleep and kept the "what ifs" going until 2 am.

    Realizations:
    I hope this doesn't sound like I was some Billy Badass, Gun snatching Ninja, Tim did not fight me, he let me take control of the weapon and the situation. Keep in mind that Tim never threatened me or my wife, and he did as I told him the entire time. Tim is in the Army Reserves, he weighs about 150lbs stands about 5'10, I am 6'4 and weigh 280lbs. I first thank God, that the situation unfolded the way it did, and nobody was injured or died.
    -You never know who, what, where, and when, so be armed and ready always. (wife's realization)
    -I was the only one that acted, everybody else was stunned.
    -train on your gun as universally as you can, like running the slide on reloads. I obtained my opponents weapon, had he left the bar and grabbed the AK, I would've been arming somebody.
    -Grabbing your weapon and firing in under 2 seconds is not the only reaction. The bar was packed. I never trained in disarming, I've seen a few videos on it, and I did remember to grab the ejection port and stay clear of the muzzle. The only safe direction was to point at him, because pointing up would have been pointing at the guys head again.
    -The time you forget or chose not to arm, may be the time you end up needing it. My carry system normally is a G19 (IWB) G26 (ankle) 2 19 round mags (opposite ankle) and 1 19 round mag (left front pocked). That night I was wearing only my g19 and extra mag front pocket. I don't know why I left the BUG, when I wear pants, I normally have that set up. If the AK would've come into play, arming someone else would've have been a great option.
    -there truly are so many variables
    if Tim and I didn't connect like we did earlier in the day, if I would've been physically aggressive towards him when taking his weapon, if I would've not followed him out to his car, if I would've kept refusing to hand him his weapon, if another bar patron got involved, ect.
    - you may make mistakes, you have to adapt to them and continue. My biggest mistake was handing him his weapon back, not sure why I did it, but I did. I know I would rather fight a guy holding a handgun than a rifle. Maybe I should've held him at gun point at some point during this situation. I never had time to think about my actions, I just acted and reacted.

    In the end nobody died, and I look forward to the analyzing of others.

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    Sounds like some permit(s) need to be revoked. Sounds like some friends need to be dumped. Sounds like Tim is a bad drunk. Sounds like Tim needs a little jail time for aggravated assault. Sounds like the whole affair was ripe with potential prison time. Pointing the gun at Tim's chest was a bad idea as now you are implicated in his death if things went wrong(er!). Sounds like an evening spent at home would have been a better idea.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    Member Array BWM243's Avatar
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    Sound like you did that man a big favor. You probable save him from killing some!

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    Distinguished Member Array lionround's Avatar
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    Guns and alcohol don't mix.
    The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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    1. I'm not sure which state (Alabama?) this happened in, but we can't CC in bars in Louisiana.
    2. Glad everything "worked" out, that whole thing could have turned very ugly.
    3. Guns and booze are a BAD mix.
    4. There is some prior bad blood between Tim and John.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    1( Revoke CC permit.
    2) Anger management classes.
    3) Alcoholics Anonymous.
    Firing a suppressed is on my Bucket List.

    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.

    America...a Constitutional Republic. NOT a democracy as the liberals would have us believe.

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Well, I doubt most would have done better under those circumstances, so I'd say congrats for defusing the situation, and especially for removing him from the crowded bar.

    The bad part is an apparently dangerous guy drove off with two functioning weapons, and nothing to stop him from coming back in two minutes and shooting up the place with his rifle. It may have been a better option to draw when he went to the trunk and hold him at gunpoint until the police arrive. There were at least two times in this incident where shooting him would have been justified - when he brandished the weapon in the bar, and when he uncovered the rifle. In the bar, your decision to disarm him instead of shoot makes a great deal of sense. At the trunk, after pushing him away, I think was the time to draw.

    Just my $0.02. I'm no expert.
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    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    Member Array Djroulette's Avatar
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    In the state of Alabama we can carry into bars. Which to me is a good thing. Tim in this situation didn't care to much about laws. So I'm glad I was able to carry. There possibly can be bad blood, I don't know, don't work with them. Irresponsible drinkers and guns don't mix. I personally don't see a problem with having a drink when being armed. I had a beer that day at lunch, but that was my only one.
    gatorbait51 and gloves12 like this.

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    Member Array Djroulette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    Well, I doubt most would have done better under those circumstances, so I'd say congrats for defusing the situation, and especially for removing him from the crowded bar.

    The bad part is an apparently dangerous guy drove off with two functioning weapons, and nothing to stop him from coming back in two minutes and shooting up the place with his rifle. It may have been a better option to draw when he went to the trunk and hold him at gunpoint until the police arrive. There were at least two times in this incident where shooting him would have been justified - when he brandished the weapon in the bar, and when he uncovered the rifle. In the bar, your decision to disarm him instead of shoot makes a great deal of sense. At the trunk, after pushing him away, I think was the time to draw.

    Just my $0.02. I'm no expert.
    I agree, after thinking about it I should've done that.
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    1) Good that you diffused the situation.

    2) Tim should be spending some time in the pokey for assault, battery, etc., and quite frankly should not own any guns.

    3) Nip any relationship with Tim - with friends like Tim, you and your loved ones might end up dead.

    4) Reevaluate all the friendships - whoever brought Tim into the circle may be a faulty judge of character.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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    Member Array Djroulette's Avatar
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    Tim worked with my wife, my wife was his boss. She says she has never had any thing close to violence from Tim. Everybody at my wife's old job says the same thing. From what I was told he was the type that's would sit back and laugh at any drama going on. He showed up did his job and left. There was nothing that indicated he was like this.
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    Glad everything turned out ok.
    But be prepared for the triad about drinking and carrying. And I mean about you.
    Here in Texas that's a no-no. As is carrying in a bar that has a posted 51% sign (over 50% of revenue from alcohol sales)
    Tim needs to not be carrying. LEO need to be notified as it sounds like he could go off at anytime.
    I feel for his family.
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    1) Good that you diffused the situation.

    2) Tim should be spending some time in the pokey for assault, battery, etc., and quite frankly should not own any guns.

    3) Nip any relationship with Tim - with friends like Tim, you and your loved ones might end up dead.

    4) Reevaluate all the friendships - whoever brought Tim into the circle may be a faulty judge of character.
    Agree strongly. And don't go to the wedding!
    molleur, gatorbait51 and baren like this.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djroulette View Post
    Tim worked with my wife, my wife was his boss. She says she has never had any thing close to violence from Tim. Everybody at my wife's old job says the same thing. From what I was told he was the type that's would sit back and laugh at any drama going on. He showed up did his job and left. There was nothing that indicated he was like this.
    Got it. Sounds like Tim might have developed a case of the head games. Time to cut the rope, if it were me....
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    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    1) Good that you diffused the situation.

    2) Tim should be spending some time in the pokey for assault, battery, etc., and quite frankly should not own any guns.

    3) Nip any relationship with Tim - with friends like Tim, you and your loved ones might end up dead.

    4) Reevaluate all the friendships - whoever brought Tim into the circle may be a faulty judge of character.
    Really good point !
    molleur and gatorbait51 like this.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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