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Chasing a bike thief on foot with sidearm.

6K views 92 replies 52 participants last post by  fizzle 
#1 · (Edited)
So (what if) this situation just happened and no police were called because the bike was recovered but I wanted to recount the events and get some perspectives from the community on how I handled it.

I work at a pawn shop and we keep some merchandise outside (mainly 2 BMX bikes) for advertisement purposes.

I was taking care of a customer when I noticed 5 suspicious young black males congregating outside of the store looking at the bikes and then looking inside the store. I finished with my customer when I noted that one of the young kids had taken on of the bikes and started riding off with it quickly down the street out of the plaza.

I ran from behind the counter (I open carry inside the shop as I am allowed to do so but not legally allowed to open carry outside in Florida) outside and proceeded to chase the kid on the bike. As I was running I grasped my sidearm still in the holster and within earshot I yelled at them "Stop or I'll shoot!". I had not gotten out "Stop or I'll..." and the kid jumped off the bike and started running.

I grabbed the bike and rode it back to the store without continuing the pursuit. No police involvement and the property was recovered.

I wanted to get the communities perspective on how I handled it and maybe what could have been done differently.

Thank you for any feedback you give...
 
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#36 ·
First tell your boss to either keep the bikes inside the store, or secure them so they can't be hopped on and ridden off. If he won't secure them, let whoever decided to steal the have it. Remember, your not carrying a gun to be a LEO, your carrying it to defend yourself.
 
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#40 ·
Had it gone south, and you ended up shooting the kid, we would all know your name, your history, and personal details you would otherwise never tell us, because the state of Florida would have every civil rights group demanding your pound of flesh. Your family members would be harassed, your parents, if living, would likely receive death threats, and Nancy Grace would hold you out as the Anti-Christ.

You and perhaps your family would be financially ruined from paying legal bills, only to have you end up in prison.

Do not use your weapon to save a used BMX bike or merchandise. Use it only to save your life or the life of someone else, and only after all else has failed.
 
#41 ·
I ran from behind the counter (I open carry inside the shop as I am allowed to do so but not legally allowed to open carry outside in Florida) outside and proceeded to chase the kid on the bike. As I was running I grasped my sidearm still in the holster and within earshot I yelled at them "Stop or I'll shoot!". I had not gotten out "Stop or I'll..." and the kid jumped off the bike and started running.
Couple of questions:

1. Did you transfer your openly-carried sidearm to concealed once you left the shop (presuming you have a CHL)?

2. Does your state actually allow lawful shooting down of a fleeing thief who's posing no violent threat to anyone?

3. Does your county's GJ and DA have a strong track record of refusing to indict folks who shoot at non-violent fleeing thieves?

4. Had you actually shot the thief from whatever non-violent distance, all the witnesses having heard you proclaim you'd shoot him and having seen you do so, would you be capable of withstanding the financial/social load on your shoulders as a result?

Just wondering.
 
#43 ·
When I made the decision to carry a firearm, I also made the decision that I would not shoot, attempt to shoot, or threaten to shoot anyone over my personal property, or someone else's property. I also made the decision that I would not chase a criminal unless they had one of my family members with them. My EDC is ONLY for self defense and that of my family.

I have watched things get stolen from me while wearing my firearm and I, for certain, would not and have not made the decision that you made.

These decisions are my personal ones.... YMMV
 
#46 ·
If the bad guy on the bike calls 911 and says that he was scared for his life because a man with a gun (you) threatened to shoot him, then it is your witnesses against the BG's.
If you broke the law then its not good for you. Well, either way, its not good for you.
 
#47 ·
You were damn lucky.

And for crying out loud have your boss pony up for some chain and a lock and a bike rack.
 
#48 ·
Where was your need for self defense... they stole a bicycle???? They didnt take it from you by gunpoint. If you would have shot them, you would be going to prison. You were inside the tore... by going outside, a good DA will argue you left safety seeking confrontation. Is he right, I dunno, but it is tough to argue. As far as the bike goes, I would say it prob ran in the 50 dollar range, knowing local pawnshops. Is your life worth 50 bucks? Is it worth a bicycle? Is worth losing over property that is covered by insurance anyway? Is it worth property that doesnt even belong to you? Maybe your boss should invest is a 5 dollar bike chain from walmart and lock the bikes together when they are sitting outside unattended...wait for someone to steal. You are lucky you even noticed it was gone.

I think you really need to learn local and federal laws regarding the use of a firearm in self defense. In this case, if you had shot someone, you would be assigned a number, a bunk, and a cellmate for the next 20 yrs. Just my $0.02
 
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#50 ·
RPG, even though you are taking a bit of heat on this, I for one am glad that you bring up such an important topic.

We civilian carriers of firearms need to remind ourselves, fairly often, that we are not LEOs, and that a fleeing suspect is free to flee (although with a little work, one might be able to construct a contrary hypothetical, depending on potential subsequent threats to human life and other ancillary potential threatening circumstances, etc.).

Here is a situation from which we can all learn and/or with which we can reinforce our training.

.
 
#53 ·
IMO, chasing anyone over a bike under any circumstances is a bad idea. Threatening to shoot them over the bike is even worse. Had you been ON the bike, then threatened with harm to get the bike from you, that's a different story. Still wouldn't chase. You really think you will catch a kid on a bike while you are on foot? At best I say " Stop and I won't call the cops!" If the kid makes off with the bike, or whatever property I didn't have the foresight to lock down, I call the police and let them take a full report. I'm sure your shop has surveillance cameras that could have helped recover the bike. Since you had your hand on your gun, prepared to threaten deadly force, you all but eliminated the chance of bringing the police in to investigate if he hadn't dropped the bike.


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#55 ·
$80 bmx bike just doesn't seem worth my effort to do more than call the cops and give them the security footage. You have video, right? Opening myself up to a criminal, much less a civil, lawsuit over that seems crazy.
 
#56 ·
Being open to criticism is sometimes difficult, so - respect.

From my POV, here were your mistakes:

1. While carrying a gun, you risked a physical confrontation over something minor. No matter how justified it is to give chase, this creates a real possibility of loss of life, either yours or his - and neither of you deserved to die over a bicycle.

2. You confused theft with robbery. Grabbing an item and running is wrong, but it does not threaten the physical well-being of another, and use of any level of force is - IMHO - unjustified, no matter what the law "allows," gun or no gun.

3. You gave chase while OC'ing. Imagine a lawsuit. First scenario: "the guy chased me for stealing a bike." No judge or jury is going to award money to the guy. Second scenario: "the guy chased me for stealing a bike, and he had his hand on a gun." This may very well open your wallet to the thief. (Many fail to understand that having a gun makes you more able to defend against lethal threats, but LESS able to defend against minor offenses. The more visible the gun, the more true this is.)

4. You verbally threatened the use of deadly force against a person who was fleeing. If you had had to use the firearm, even if justified, witnesses have heard that, and it makes you look like the BG.
 
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#74 ·
You forgot #5:

5. Confessing this on the internet.
 
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#60 ·
If you leave the firearm out of this story, I would say that you acted appropriately for the most part although I am not sure that I personally would have cared enough about my bosses used bike to chase anyone. But with you having a VISIBLE firearm, I think you made the wrong choice to give chase and definitely made a huge mistake by saying to him that you would shoot. If your firearm had been concealed, I might could see how a very loyal employee could justify giving chase but the firearm should never have been introduced into the equation unless you caught up with the guy and he drew on you not knowing you were carrying. Had it been MY bike being stolen from MY home, I certainly would have chased the same as you because I have a special place in my heart for thieves but it would never be revealed that I had a firearm on my hip unless the guy turned violent on me. I am all for protecting MY property from thieves and will not set idle and let them steal me blind just because I have a concealed firearm but you can't shoot them or even threaten to shoot them just for being thieves. Your life has to be in danger before you even think about going for that pistol.
 
#61 ·
you technically cant chase them off the property of the store. Its ok to chase them down in the parking lot but that's about it. I also would not yell that you are going to shoot him. That is a threat and legally gives him the right to protect himself and shoot you.
 
#64 ·
Brings up another question: OP, while heading off on the chase and loudly proclaiming you'd shoot the guy, where were the handful of other guy's buddies? Trailing you closely? Surrounding you? Pulling out their own weapons in his defense? Uncertain??
 
#65 ·
Stealing a $100 bike is a capital crime for a juvenile?

Not calling the police was probably the only smart move you made.
 
#67 ·
Hope this hasn't been brought up but I am too tired to read through all of the post. Here is what I wish to say.

Is it worth a bike to kill a kid? Yeah, what he did was wrong but to pull a gun or even think of pulling a gun over a bike? Life is precious, I was rather taken back when I read the OP about saying stop or I'll... You will what? Kill him? And I gotta bring this up too, why even mention the race of the kid?

If the kid got the bike then I bet the owner wouldn't be such a doofus and use his/her noggin and lock up the bikes like the other suggested. Now please use your noggin next time. :rolleyes:
 
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