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Chasing a bike thief on foot with sidearm.

6K views 92 replies 52 participants last post by  fizzle 
#1 · (Edited)
So (what if) this situation just happened and no police were called because the bike was recovered but I wanted to recount the events and get some perspectives from the community on how I handled it.

I work at a pawn shop and we keep some merchandise outside (mainly 2 BMX bikes) for advertisement purposes.

I was taking care of a customer when I noticed 5 suspicious young black males congregating outside of the store looking at the bikes and then looking inside the store. I finished with my customer when I noted that one of the young kids had taken on of the bikes and started riding off with it quickly down the street out of the plaza.

I ran from behind the counter (I open carry inside the shop as I am allowed to do so but not legally allowed to open carry outside in Florida) outside and proceeded to chase the kid on the bike. As I was running I grasped my sidearm still in the holster and within earshot I yelled at them "Stop or I'll shoot!". I had not gotten out "Stop or I'll..." and the kid jumped off the bike and started running.

I grabbed the bike and rode it back to the store without continuing the pursuit. No police involvement and the property was recovered.

I wanted to get the communities perspective on how I handled it and maybe what could have been done differently.

Thank you for any feedback you give...
 
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#3 ·
When did this happen?

Were there witnesses?

My advice: delete this post.

The following isn't meant to be harsh, but to help keep you out of jail, which is likely where you would be if any of the BGs had called the police (which does happen).

1. You are not the police
2. A bike is not worth killing or being killed over
3. I don't think using lethal force (or the threat of lethal force) is legal in Florida for protection of property
4. Many would consider what you did brandishing
5. Don't leave a secure location to go out into the open, ESPECIALLY when facing multiple BGs
6. You are lucky you aren't in jail
 
#5 ·
In lieu of the circumstances, I doubt the PBSO would have much to say beyond glad you got the bike back. Did you put yourself in a venerable position? Yes, but it worked out this time. I would have filed a LE report in hopes of the kid getting picked up afterwards.
Lessons learned?
Know your limitations legally.
BGs know to steal a bike elsewhere.
 
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#7 ·
Royalpawn,

Next time lock the bikes up. As far as what you did, IMO it was not advisable......
 
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#8 ·
I understand the worries that some have but I do wonder since robbery is listed as a forcible felony in Florida and forcible felonies are allowed to be stopped using deadly force. So because the person was engaged in a forcible felony it was within my rights to defend property that I had "a legal duty to protect" as an employee.
 
#11 ·
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.

I understand what you are saying. However, I think a kid stealing a bike from the front of the store, and you deciding to shoot would have been a costly mistake on your part.
 
#22 ·
I understand the worries that some have but I do wonder since robbery is listed as a forcible felony in Florida and forcible felonies are allowed to be stopped using deadly force. So because the person was engaged in a forcible felony it was within my rights to defend property that I had "a legal duty to protect" as an employee.
He didn't commit robbery, though. He committed a misdemeanor theft.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that robbery in every jurisdiction involves the use or threat of force. Your bike thief did not, hence, you would not have been justified in using deadly force to stop the theft and certainly not justified in using deadly force to stop his escape.

In the future, don't make threats like "Stop or I'll shoot!" if you are not, in fact, justified in doing so.

But still, you got the bike, you're not going to jail, and all in all things worked out in the end, so that's a good day.

Just FYI, for those people who are wondering:

ROBBERY: Is the taking of property to which the robber does not have a legal right either by force or by the threat of force.

BURGLARY: Is entering property in which the robber does not have a legal right to be with the intent of committing some other crime.

THEFT: Is the taking of property to which the thief does not have a legal right.

They don't mean the same thing. Whether theft is a misdemeanor or a felony usually depends on the value of what is stolen, but many states have certain exceptions, i.e. in Minnesota stealing a motor vehicle or a firearm is always a felony, regardless of the value of the item. I think in Florida stealing certain government property, anhydrous ammonia, or a few other things are also specifically stated as felonies by statutes.

Burglary and Robbery are virtually always felonies.
 
#12 ·
In Florida you cannot use nor threaten the use of deadly force for anything less than a forcible felony. Stealing what I would assume would be maybe a $100 bike would not come close to meeting this standard. If you did not have a gun on your hip or yell about shooting them, you are welcome to run after someone to retrieve your property but it is not advisable for the reasons others listed above.

This is one of the cases that falls into the category of "I'm not law enforcement, I carry to protect life and not property".
 
#13 ·
Definitely not the best choice. Get a video, get a picture, descriptions, etc. Chasing after a guy with a gun and yelling stop or I'll shoot oversteps what you can do in self-defense. Legally, I don't see that scenario ending well for you. Brush up on brandishing laws etc in your area, and get some locks. A stolen bike is not worth his life, your life, or the legal fees or fines that go along with any lawsuit you would be exposed to.
 
#17 ·
sounds to me like you committed a felony, dude. What amount separates felony theft from misdemeanor theft in your state? Most states, it's $300 or more, and the bike, from a pawn shop, doesn't make the grade. You can't threaten use of deadly force to stop a misdemeanor.
 
#18 ·
That is the main reason that I did not give chase after the stolen property was recovered. I do not want to be the anti-2A poster child. Stop the commission of the crime and then go back to work. Not the first time I have had to chase someone with property that has been stolen from the store just the first time that I was OC in the store. That was my main concern. I never even got out my command of "Stop or I'll" he saw me running after him saw the sidearm on my hip and jumped off the bike running.
 
#19 ·
I think you nearly made a HORRIBLE mistake that would have set back the cause of legally armed citizens back years.
1- Lock the freaking bikes. They are a mode of transportation. They can move faster than you can run (usually).

2- Chasing the kid is irrational. There were other kids out there with him. How much could they have stolen and gotten away with within moments after you hotfooted it out after the first kid? This might have been a setup diversion. If it wasn't it will be next time.

3- If you had used your weapon on a bike thief, shooting him in the BACK can you even begin to grasp how bad the outcome would have been for you? Life as you know it would be over. And pointing to Florida felony laws would help you about as much as spitting on a forest fire.

I tried to think of a kind gentle way to say the above but, well I think it needs to be said as is. Please listen and learn. Don't get defensive.
 
#20 ·
I would have called in an airship to keep eyes on him. Then get some units up ahead to throw down some spike strips. Obviously have K9 on standby in case the perp bails on foot.

Oh wait, this was a BMX bike that the store paid pennies on the dollar for. If he was still at the store I have no problem yanking him into the office by his earlobes and waiting on police. If he was already riding into the sunset, then just wave goodbye. It isn't worth the risk of introducing a gun when your safety was in no way compromised. By TN definition, you committed an aggravated (felony) assault. Doesn't matter that the kid was in the wrong. He committed a misdemeanor, and you committed a felony. Always remember, the most liberal folks on the planet will end up on your jury. Glad ya got the bike back though :embarassed: Nobody likes a thief.
 
#23 ·
Not going to be defensive at all. I knew after it was over it could have been handled better and that is why I turned here for advice for the future. I did not have time to take the gun off my belt and I went into fight or flight and I just started running after him to recover the bike. I did not want to have to shoot and retrospectively I most likely would not have shot unless they had tried to confront me. I got the bike back and everything is fine now. As for leaving the store unattended there was 2 of us working so the store was not unattended or able to be taken advantage of. It's not my choice on whether to lock them or not it is the owners and while I agree with the sentiment it still does not make it okay that they took a bike locked or unlocked. I do not mind the blunt nature of your comments as it is not only for my own good but the good of the community as a whole. The whole situation was not acceptable but I did in that moment what I thought was right by chasing down stolen property the only thing was that I was OC'ing. If I had been in CC mode the gun most likely would not have come into play unless they confronted me when trying to recover the stolen property.
 
#25 ·
What you did was wrong. The bike wasn't worth risking your life for nor potentially threatening to kill another for stealing it. You need to thank your lucky stars it didn't turn out bad and reconsider your priorities. You should have just called the cops and maybe they could have arrested the punk that started all of this.
 
#29 ·
GOOD JOB! I'm referring to how open minded you are in being willing to listen and learn. I'm impressed. I like the odds that you will learn and improve, and not just this incident. Being willing to listen and learn without going all defensive portends a good future outlook for you. Oh, and I'd modify the original post to start out with, "What if something like this happened". :wave:
 
#30 ·
I am sorry, but shooting, or threatening to shoot, some stupid punk kid over a crappy pawn shop bike is completely irresponsible and feeds right into the argument that having a gun makes you want to use it. If the bikes are valuable enough to take a life, then they need to be locked inside your store.
 
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#33 ·
Yes I have a license to carry and yes that is a good idea in the future. Again it was more of a seconds notice kind of thing and I just acted. I wear my shirt tucked in when I OC at the store and just didn't think to pull it out. Not to mention it probably would not have remained concealed for long with how fast I was running.
 
#34 ·
If that was the case I would have used it but trust me I did not want to use it. I wanted him to drop the bike and leave which is what happened. Yes my command was wrong. I have learned from the scenario and will be concealed carrying at the store from now on to mitigate the risk should I have to pursue someone.
 
#38 ·
If that was the case I would have used it but trust me I did not want to use it. I wanted him to drop the bike and leave which is what happened. Yes my command was wrong. I have learned from the scenario and will be concealed carrying at the store from now on to mitigate the risk should I have to pursue someone.
If you still intend to pursue someone, you've learned nothing from this scenario.
 
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