Chasing a bike thief on foot with sidearm.

This is a discussion on Chasing a bike thief on foot with sidearm. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So (what if) this situation just happened and no police were called because the bike was recovered but I wanted to recount the events and ...

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Thread: Chasing a bike thief on foot with sidearm.

  1. #1
    Member Array RoyalPawnGuns's Avatar
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    Chasing a bike thief on foot with sidearm.

    So (what if) this situation just happened and no police were called because the bike was recovered but I wanted to recount the events and get some perspectives from the community on how I handled it.

    I work at a pawn shop and we keep some merchandise outside (mainly 2 BMX bikes) for advertisement purposes.

    I was taking care of a customer when I noticed 5 suspicious young black males congregating outside of the store looking at the bikes and then looking inside the store. I finished with my customer when I noted that one of the young kids had taken on of the bikes and started riding off with it quickly down the street out of the plaza.

    I ran from behind the counter (I open carry inside the shop as I am allowed to do so but not legally allowed to open carry outside in Florida) outside and proceeded to chase the kid on the bike. As I was running I grasped my sidearm still in the holster and within earshot I yelled at them "Stop or I'll shoot!". I had not gotten out "Stop or I'll..." and the kid jumped off the bike and started running.

    I grabbed the bike and rode it back to the store without continuing the pursuit. No police involvement and the property was recovered.

    I wanted to get the communities perspective on how I handled it and maybe what could have been done differently.

    Thank you for any feedback you give...
    Last edited by RoyalPawnGuns; April 5th, 2014 at 03:34 PM.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    You put yourself at risk physically and legally just to get your bosses pawned bike back? Bad choice.

    At least you didn't actually draw your gun.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    When did this happen?

    Were there witnesses?

    My advice: delete this post.

    The following isn't meant to be harsh, but to help keep you out of jail, which is likely where you would be if any of the BGs had called the police (which does happen).

    1. You are not the police
    2. A bike is not worth killing or being killed over
    3. I don't think using lethal force (or the threat of lethal force) is legal in Florida for protection of property
    4. Many would consider what you did brandishing
    5. Don't leave a secure location to go out into the open, ESPECIALLY when facing multiple BGs
    6. You are lucky you aren't in jail
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

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    Senior Member Array nontechguy's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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    In lieu of the circumstances, I doubt the PBSO would have much to say beyond glad you got the bike back. Did you put yourself in a venerable position? Yes, but it worked out this time. I would have filed a LE report in hopes of the kid getting picked up afterwards.
    Lessons learned?
    Know your limitations legally.
    BGs know to steal a bike elsewhere.
    dangerranger likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    It's partially your bosses fault for not having the bikes chained up/ a place to chain them. It's not your job to chase thieves down the street. At most, step out front and get video of them. Glad nothing happened. AFAIK, OC is not permitted in Fla.
    kukla and Old Sarge like this.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Royalpawn,

    Next time lock the bikes up. As far as what you did, IMO it was not advisable......
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Member Array RoyalPawnGuns's Avatar
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    I understand the worries that some have but I do wonder since robbery is listed as a forcible felony in Florida and forcible felonies are allowed to be stopped using deadly force. So because the person was engaged in a forcible felony it was within my rights to defend property that I had "a legal duty to protect" as an employee.

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    Member Array RoyalPawnGuns's Avatar
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    I know OC is not legal in Florida as usually I only do inside the store as a way to deter robbery. I just did not have time to really think about taking it off otherwise he would have gotten away.

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    Member Array Shielded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    When did this happen?

    Were there witnesses?

    My advice: delete this post.

    The following isn't meant to be harsh, but to help keep you out of jail, which is likely where you would be if any of the BGs had called the police (which does happen).

    1. You are not the police
    2. A bike is not worth killing or being killed over
    3. I don't think using lethal force (or the threat of lethal force) is legal in Florida for protection of property
    4. Many would consider what you did brandishing
    5. Don't leave a secure location to go out into the open, ESPECIALLY when facing multiple BGs
    6. You are lucky you aren't in jail
    I'm with Badey. Definitely not smart to run after the bad gun when your weapon is for self defense.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalPawnGuns View Post
    I understand the worries that some have but I do wonder since robbery is listed as a forcible felony in Florida and forcible felonies are allowed to be stopped using deadly force. So because the person was engaged in a forcible felony it was within my rights to defend property that I had "a legal duty to protect" as an employee.
    776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
    History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.

    I understand what you are saying. However, I think a kid stealing a bike from the front of the store, and you deciding to shoot would have been a costly mistake on your part.
    Ianthin, suntzu, Ksgunner and 2 others like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Member Array GatorGuy407's Avatar
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    In Florida you cannot use nor threaten the use of deadly force for anything less than a forcible felony. Stealing what I would assume would be maybe a $100 bike would not come close to meeting this standard. If you did not have a gun on your hip or yell about shooting them, you are welcome to run after someone to retrieve your property but it is not advisable for the reasons others listed above.

    This is one of the cases that falls into the category of "I'm not law enforcement, I carry to protect life and not property".
    StevePVB and StormRhydr like this.

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    Member Array bgusty's Avatar
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    Definitely not the best choice. Get a video, get a picture, descriptions, etc. Chasing after a guy with a gun and yelling stop or I'll shoot oversteps what you can do in self-defense. Legally, I don't see that scenario ending well for you. Brush up on brandishing laws etc in your area, and get some locks. A stolen bike is not worth his life, your life, or the legal fees or fines that go along with any lawsuit you would be exposed to.
    I think guns are like insurance. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

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    Member Array GatorGuy407's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalPawnGuns View Post
    I understand the worries that some have but I do wonder since robbery is listed as a forcible felony in Florida and forcible felonies are allowed to be stopped using deadly force. So because the person was engaged in a forcible felony it was within my rights to defend property that I had "a legal duty to protect" as an employee.
    I think that it would have been closer to shoplifting rather than robbery. Robbery usually implies force or threat of force, which is why Florida allows you to use deadly force to stop it. Also, I believe that once the robbery takes place, deadly force is not longer authorized.

    Standard Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalPawnGuns View Post
    I understand the worries that some have but I do wonder since robbery is listed as a forcible felony in Florida and forcible felonies are allowed to be stopped using deadly force. So because the person was engaged in a forcible felony it was within my rights to defend property that I had "a legal duty to protect" as an employee.
    Well, that's your call. I was unaware of the statute. However, I still think it is ill-advised to give chase, and threaten to shoot (and moreso to actually shoot someone) over a bike. I think this could have been the next Zimmerman case if you had pulled the trigger.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

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