January 1st, 2007 09:16 PM
The LAST thing you want after the shoot is to be doing ANYTHING, other than waiting for LE to arrive and ID you as a good guy. You should be insuring that there are no other threats in the immediate area, secure your weapon and await the LEO's. Your attention should be directed more towards witnesses on your behalf than the BG leaking out on the street. His life may be over, but yours is moving forward and THINK of what you need to do to make that happen.
January 1st, 2007 09:31 PM
January 1st, 2007 10:40 PM
Personally, while CPR certified and First Aid trained, I would not. As I was told some years ago, if you DO decide to administer first aid/CPR, you are in many states, required to continue to do so until relieved by competent personnel. (This was stated relative to the liability laws in Virginia at the time, being a volunteer firefighter.) If this is still true, in my mind, it would place me in a position of liability if there were another attacker waiting in the wings.
However, I have also been told (IANAL) that most states have enacted "Good Samaritan" laws to protect doctors, paramedics, EMT's, and helpful citizens who decide to help, as long as they are acting in good faith within the limits of their training and abilities.
Another way to look at it, in my opinion, is that it would alleviate any claims that you were just out to shoot someone, wanted to kill them, etc, by trying to render aid after the shooting. My thought is that it would garner some "Brownie points" in the media reports, police reports, etc.
Just my opinions on a couple of ways to look at it. Again, personally, I would not. As it was told to us in regards to a scene where an officer and a dirtbag were both shot, both were still alive, the paramedics are required to assist both the wounded officer and the wounded dirtbag, but nothing says which one they have to attend to and transport first.
When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle
January 1st, 2007 10:59 PM
Can't know if he's playing "possum" or not. If still breathing and not in "chains" in custody of LEO's, he's still a threat. If I were a BG, playing "possum" would be first on my mind, at this juncture. Can't imagine any law would demand a victim give up 100% of all tactical superiority to get into a compromising position of being weaponless and administering first aid. Still, there's demand and there's reality. Fortunately, where I live there is no such tactical bait-and-switch asked of victims.
What would I do? My obligation is to the GG's that have just been victimized; they survive, no matter the cost to the BG. His path to healing lies through a doctor's hands and the penitentiary, not mine.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 1st, 2007 11:49 PM
I imagine that it could be difficult for some to do nothing but bloodborne pathogens are not your friend. Stay at a safe distance and wait for EMS and Police.
January 2nd, 2007 07:34 AM
Thanks Y'all, I spent over an hour after this post going over every law I could find and nothing was present. Everything that was mentioned here is what I told my friend, I would stay away from the guy, making sure the area was secure and let the law and EMT save the guy, if possible. His claim was that if you were trained in CPR, along with this training came a responsibility to administer such first aid if it presented itself. He is from the bleeding heart yankee pont of view (no offense to you Northerner's). This was one of those debates that come up that only a random forum like this can help solve. Thanks for the input. While I would agree the AIDS is not likely to be transmitted through saliva, but if I did my job proberly the BG will have a huge hole bleeding immensly and that can easily lead to infection, just takes a small open wound, which I usually have on my hands somewhere.
When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
January 2nd, 2007 09:31 AM
Even the NRA in its various publications advise against administering first aid due to the "Possum" effect. I would not if it were me. I would simply call 911 and keep an eye on him. NRA goes as far as advising against even allowing a bystander to administer aid until the proper authorities arrive. Disturbing crime scene, destroying eveidence and the like.
January 2nd, 2007 03:03 PM
Is the BG naked? No? Then how do I know he doesn't have another weapon on him, and that he's not just pretending to be unconscious?
Sorry, I can't risk my life to save the life of someone who just was threatening or trying to end mine.
Besides, the way I read "good shoot" is "dead BG."
If he's still alive, not so "good."
January 2nd, 2007 03:42 PM
It depends. If it happened in my home, I would do everything I could to keep the BG from bleeding on my carpet. Otherwise, I may offer words of encouragement to the BG, like "head into the darkness" or "follow the warmth"
Really though, I dont think your under any obligation to provide first aid. As a LEO, I have to if possible as it was a part of my training. However, as I stated in another thread, first aid and medic stuff is not one of my strong points, and it may take me awhile to gather my self enough to render first aid.
Its a hard call to make until your in that position.
January 2nd, 2007 05:09 PM
Of course, laws vary from state to state, but I don't know of any state where this is even close to being true. In fact, in most states even a licensed EMT is not required by law to render aid if he or she believes that they would put themselves at risk by doing so.
Originally Posted by NCHornet
Now, I suppose you could argue that there is a moral obligation to try to help when you can, but a legal requirement? Absolutely not!
January 2nd, 2007 10:46 PM
Ask your buddy if the shoe was on the other foot, would the bad guy give you CPR? That should curb the bleeding heart stuff about moral obligation.
January 3rd, 2007 08:08 AM
Sixto's 1st paragraph is too funny.
I don't think I would be helping anyone out that I shot. I would stay and make sure help could arrive but that is all I would feel obligated to do. Like previous posters, it could open a can of worms that a DA would love to get a hold of.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of the ultimate CC gun!
January 3rd, 2007 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by nizmobil
At best I might say to the BG; "911 says that emergency services are on the way".
Aside from that I'm not touching the BG(s) nor am I getting withint grab/grapple reach of him/them either.
Wounded animals will play possum.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
January 3rd, 2007 02:42 PM
"911 says that emergency services are on the way."
". . . sure hope they get here in time to keep you from bleeding out. Are ya cold? Yeah, that's blood loss for ya. Hey, it was sure a good idea to try to make me your victim tonight, wasn't it? Heh. Tell the devil his plan sucks."
January 3rd, 2007 03:24 PM
I don't think I am under any legal obligation to render first aid to a bad guy I just had to shoot to save my or my loved ones lives. Period.
I would call 911 and then tell him, if he isn't out cold that aid was on the way and then I would keep him at gun point until I hear the sirens.
When my wife and I were first married and we moved to Norfolk VA (I was in the Navy) I used to tell her that if someone broke into our house that her job was to call the cops and tell them that there was a dead guy in our living room and her husband was yelling at him.
You try to kill or harm me or mine and you give up your right to first aid from me.
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