First aid after a legitimate shoot?

First aid after a legitimate shoot?

This is a discussion on First aid after a legitimate shoot? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just as the title says, are we required to administer first aid to the BG after a justified shoot? Take this scenario, You shoot BG ...

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Thread: First aid after a legitimate shoot?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    First aid after a legitimate shoot?

    Just as the title says, are we required to administer first aid to the BG after a justified shoot?
    Take this scenario,
    You shoot BG it is a justified good shoot, you have disarmed him and have called 911 and reported the incident and requested law and medical attention. The BG passes out and stops breathing, you are trained and certified in CPR, the BG is no longer a threat are you under any obligation to help this guy? I say no, but a friend of mine says yes. When I received my CPR training years ago nothing was mention about having a legal obligation to use it, moral maybe but not legal. What do y'all think and what would you do?
    Last edited by NCHornet; January 2nd, 2007 at 07:35 AM.
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Do you know he's really passed out, not just playing possum? Do you know that he doesn't have a hidden weapon of some sort? Do you know he's not planning to attack you again if you get close enough?

    If it's a justified shoot that this is someone who clearly displayed the intent to cause you (or someone else) severe injury or death. By shooting and disarming him you've removed the visible means for him to carry out this threat, but that doesn't mean that he's truly disarmed and out of the fight. In this circumstance I'd call 911 and keep my distance till police/EMS arrive.

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not a lawyer but I know enough to be wary of administering First Aid on strangers. Sad but true in this day and age that any family of someone who dies while you had your hands upon him trying to save him can and likely will sue you.
    Also it might effect the resultant court case, I can provide no precedent, just a gut feeling that a jury would be less likely to see it as a clear cut case of justification in your mind if you showed what could be perceived as remorse, even if you were only showing compassion.

    If it were me I would let the professionals administer the aid and concentrate on remaining safe from any other threat until they arrive, it is possible that while you are bent over him giving CPR his friend stabs you in the back.

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I would leave the leaking person alone myself . Shure as shooting if he did go ahead and expire some shyster would try and say i was not satusfied with shooting him but wanted to finish him off by beating on his chest / smothering him.
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    some shyster would try and say i was not satusfied with shooting him but wanted to finish him off by beating on his chest / smothering him.
    Good point.

    The implications of being seen with your hands on a prone dead guy while you're holding a gun are just a bit too much for me to want to play with.

    I'm guessing there are a lot of deaths from ineffective First Aid, not negligence per se but just people 'trying to help'.

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    Member Array produman's Avatar
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    I don't know what the law is but he would not receive any first aid from me. Could be a trick to you.
    "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
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  7. #7
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    call for an ambulance the police they will be coming anyway because the medics will not come in until the scene is secure. No you are required to give assist. Stay where you are he probably has friends as most crimes are commited by more than one person. I personnally would not know the condition of the BG until the police tell me as I do not intend to get that close down or not.

  8. #8
    Member Array Ranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHornet View Post
    Just as the title says, are we required to administer first aid to our victim after a justified shoot?
    In a justified shoot, the one with the hole in him is NOT the victim; he's the perpetrator. YOU are the victim of his criminal act (or attempted criminal act), or you certainly wouldn't have had justification to employ deadly force.

    This is an important distinction. The terms you use when interviewed are going to follow you around (right into the DA's office and the courtroom). You feel horrible about having to shoot that criminal, but his relentless aggression left you fearing for your life and the lives of others and you had no other choice.

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCHornet View Post
    Just as the title says, are we required to administer first aid to our victim after a justified shoot?
    Take this scenario,
    You shoot BG it is a justified good shoot, you have disarmed him and have called 911 and reported the incident and requested law and medical attention. The BG passes out and stops breathing, you are trained and certified in CPR, the BG is no longer a threat are you under any obligation to help this guy? I say no, but a friend of mine says yes. When I received my CPR training years ago nothing was mention about having a legal obligation to use it, moral maybe but not legal. What do y'all think and what would you do?
    I think your friend has watched too much TV.

    I don't believe you owe the perp anything more than a call to 911.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Safe Scene

    No EMS provider of any level of training should be administering CPR without gloves and some kind of barrier like a CPR mask. Preferably with a face shield or eye protection also. There is no such thing as Mouth-to-Mouth CPR anymore. Catch some AIDS or Hepatitis C from that BG and you are just as dead. As all us EMTs, Medics, and firefighters here will tell you, providing care without the proper equipment is just not the standard of care, and is totally defensible in a court. That not counting the risk of a BG faking or just plain being not-as-injured as you think. Also hard to watch your back during a good round of CPR. Better to stay alert to look for additional threats, as well as the arriving cops so you can safely surrender the scene to them. That will secure the scene quicker and get that BG the EMS help he needs that much quicker.

    Repeat after me: Scene safety, BSI.

  11. #11
    New Member Array nizmobil's Avatar
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    I would not touch the assailant or even try to help him. You do not know if he has other criminal friends with him or what amount of fight he has left in him. If he is bleeding he might have a disease. It can also have an effect on the court case as Alias said, the lawyer may say you planted a gun on him, or a knife, or the drugs they found on him because you interfered with the crime scene and evidence.

    Stay away and call 911.

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Bad Guys have friends, how do you know someone isn't just waiting for you to be distracted. Besides anyone that saw the action happen might just think if you went to help him that you were going to finish the job. Murder one?. Just leave him alone, if he dies it was his fault not yours.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Personally, I wouldn't touch a person that caused me reason to have to shoot the individual.

    There is nothing on the books in NC that says you have to that I have read.

  14. #14
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    If you are not a Paramedic or an MD then call 911 & request an ambulance. Do not administer First Aid to a BG/Perp
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  15. #15
    Member Array Mass-Diver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    No EMS provider of any level of training should be administering CPR without gloves and some kind of barrier like a CPR mask. Preferably with a face shield or eye protection also. There is no such thing as Mouth-to-Mouth CPR anymore. Catch some AIDS or Hepatitis C from that BG and you are just as dead. As all us EMTs, Medics, and firefighters here will tell you, providing care without the proper equipment is just not the standard of care, and is totally defensible in a court. Repeat after me: Scene safety, BSI.

    I would not give first aid to a BG that I shot out of fear that he would still be a threat.

    But, on aside, there is NOT a single case of a person catching HIV or hep C from giving mouth-mouth (source - newest ACLS book). While I would advise everyone to use a mask if one is possible, to let (a good person - not a shot BG) die because you are scared about the 1 in a billion chance of catching something is a personal choice, but lets not scare people. There's no real risk of getting HIV from mouth to mouth - the viral load in saliva is just so low. You need to be bleeding bad from the mouth and so do they - the odds of that are very low and that's why it has never happened.

    Gloves for CPR? Again, yes they are nice and health care providers should obviously wear them - but for the person on the street? Here's another reality check: many studies have shown that up to 50% medical gloves have holes in them. That's reality - wash your hands and cover up cuts.

    I know alot of these scare tactics come from Unions scared about liability (and that's fine for the pros), but lets not scare people, lets stick to real facts.

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