Rendering aid after a self defense shooting?

This is a discussion on Rendering aid after a self defense shooting? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After seeing all that stuff going on with Byron Smith and how he shot himself in the foot in many regards and shooting after they ...

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Thread: Rendering aid after a self defense shooting?

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    Member Array Dan.1977P's Avatar
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    Rendering aid after a self defense shooting?

    After seeing all that stuff going on with Byron Smith and how he shot himself in the foot in many regards and shooting after they were incapacitated was one of those ways. I've been asked if I would render aid to a bad guy if I had to shoot to remove the threat and my answer is a resounding yes. I'm a paramedic so it's in my nature to want to help anyway but this seems like it could be a slippery slope.
    I just wonder if it could be seen as I wasn't really fearful if I could shoot someone and then be comfortable plugging the holes until EMS arrives. I would certainly take the time to restrain if the BG was conscious or had any chance of regaining consciousness prior to getting that close.
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    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    If I am going to shoot someone it will resemble nothing of the Byron Smith case. And in short my answer is no. I am not placing myself in a position in which I am "helping" someone out and then have to shoot them again when their felonious behavior acts up again. That being said, I'm not a paramedic either so I think that both of us would be better off letting the professionals handle it anyway. And if this person comes out of it alive that's all fine and dandy, but they will also have charges pressed on them as far as I can take them.
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    In my personal experience, no good deed goes unpunished.

    I am not trained to disarm a wounded person or render aid to a gunshot victim. Every situation is different, but there are way too many things that can go wrong both legally and physically.

    Under the vast majority of circumstances, my aid would stop at dialing 911 and telling them were to pick up the BG.

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    There are various ways of "rendering aid". One way is to dial 911, and request an ambulance for the BG. Thats going to be done regardless, should you notify LE about the encounter.

    That might be as far as I would go. My fear would be that I would be killed by someone who had already demonstrated that they were a threat to my life.

    Ie someone who might stab or strangle me should I get close enough to them.

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    No way do you approach a BG with the intent of rendering aid after said BG tried to depry you of your life. Remain at the ready, scan the area, call 911, and tell the 911 operator that you were forced to defend your life by shooting someone and that if the BG survives, you want to press charges.
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    Member Array Norm66's Avatar
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    The situation would have to be extremely well in hand for me to render any aid. Accomplices? Get away drivers? Who knows?

    Plus restraining a wounded felon seems like a really bad idea. Every situation is different but in general, I'm saying no.

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    Senior Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    Let's see if I got this right.

    1. A BG puts me in fear of life and limb to the point where I feel it's absolutely necessary to use deadly force to protect myself or a loved one.
    2. Said deadly force proves to not be so deadly.
    3. Then because they're injured, I'm suppose to disregard what they just tried to do and possibly put myself back into a position of having my life endangered by a now wounded (and presumably ticked-off) BG.

    I would most likely have to ponder that as I called 911 to report the SD shooting, my wife to let her know I'm alive, and then my lawyer.
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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    I will render the aid required by law; 911 call, etc. I will provide NO aid beyond those requirements. In the inevitable civil suit following my criminal No-Bill, who's to say that an aggressive plaintiff's attorney won't claim that my extra First Aid efforts were actually intended to make sure my assailant...died?
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    My concern would be what if he died from complications to something you did in trying to help? Then you might be cleared as self defense for the shooting, but charged with murder in the aftercare.
    Tough position to be in, but, unless I was directed to by 911 or responding LEO, I would wait.
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    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    If he was such a threat that you had to shoot them why are you helping them? Remember that justifiable homicide is fear of great bodily harm that could kill you or main you or other.

    I have extensive medical training and I am licensed as well. I have thought a bit about it as you have and IMO the best recourse is to call 911. I would really suggest chatting with a good defense attorney for a legal perspective.

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    Would I render aid to someone I shot? Yes, if the situation was right. That would mean at least one, but preferably two, trained people there to assist if the downed opponent decides the fight is not over. If it happens in my home at zero dark thirty I don't have that so he will have to wait on EMS to decide the scene is safe and to come help him. If it is on the street and I have backup I would help as long asit could be done safely.

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    I will do what I can if I can. There is no one answer for every situation. I'm not going as far as putting a lip lock on him, but trying to stop the bleeding is well within my abilities.
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    Member Array gloves12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happypuppy View Post
    If he was such a threat that you had to shoot them why are you helping them? Remember that justifiable homicide is fear of great bodily harm that could kill you or main you or other.
    Sure, but they are no longer a threat because now they've been shot =). I agree: if there is any potential for accomplices or the BG still holding a weapon, then probably not.

    But there are some situations where I definitely would help, if things seem significantly safer (as others have mentioned), and the BG is in real danger of dying from blood loss, etc. For example, what if someone road-rages you into the ditch and then comes at you with a crowbar. You shoot them after a verbal warning, and now the guy's face-down and bleeding badly, and the police are still 10 minutes out. If I had a first-aid kit in my car and training on how to use it, I'd like to think I'd be willing to try and bandage him up.

    who's to say that an aggressive plaintiff's attorney won't claim that my extra First Aid efforts were actually intended to make sure my assailant...died?
    My concern would be what if he died from complications to something you did in trying to help? Then you might be cleared as self defense for the shooting, but charged with murder in the aftercare.
    Right, good points, but I'd rather help and risk liability rather than let them die. Plus, Good Samaritan laws would help somewhat, right?

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    Member Array BayouBoy's Avatar
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    Having worked in the ER and other critical care areas for many years, I would be very hesitant to assume that the BG didn't have diseases that I am not interested in acquiring. I would call 911 and let them know his situation.

    However, I would think that assisting the one who threatened your life might win favor in the eyes of one juror, which is all you'd need. Just a thought.

    It's BG #2-10 that I'd be worried about once they figured out I was the one who shot their friend/loved one.
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