Bad stuff comes at you FAST

Bad stuff comes at you FAST

This is a discussion on Bad stuff comes at you FAST within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; BLUF: 18 yr old with history of violence, weapons, drug use and mental issues got tased the night before--taken to hospital--walked out of the hospital ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Bad stuff comes at you FAST

    BLUF: 18 yr old with history of violence, weapons, drug use and mental issues got tased the night before--taken to hospital--walked out of the hospital and then had LE called on him again the next night. He attacked the cops, hit one with the bat and then shot..........

    This could have been any one of us, just out walking our dog on a Sunday night when out of the blue........(except I wouldn't be in California).

    DUBLIN, Calif. — Residents of a quiet Dublin neighborhood were shocked Monday to learn that a police officer shot and killed an 18-year-old man Sunday night after he allegedly attacked an officer with a baseball bat.

    The shooting happened at a condominium on Dublin Meadows Street about 6:15 p.m. Officers were called to investigate reports by a woman that her brother, Oscar Herrera, was having a mental breakdown and may have assaulted his mother, police said.

    Officers arrived at the ground-floor unit and were met at the front door by Herrera holding a baseball bat, said Dublin Police Chief Tom McCarthy.

    Herrera used the bat to strike an officer in his right hand, which was holding his gun, the chief said. "He immediately pulled the bat up in an upward motion like he was going to do a downward swipe with the baseball bat," McCarthy said.

    The officer, fearing for his safety, fired four shots at Herrera, the chief said.

    The night before he was shot, Herrera, while possibly under the influence of methamphetamine or some other drug, got into a fight with a friend in Livermore and was "actually threatening to eat his friend," said McCarthy. Livermore police reported shocking the bloodied Herrera with a stun gun before taking him to a hospital.

    But on Sunday, he left the hospital against a doctor's advice and returned home with his mother, police said. Investigators are awaiting the results of toxicology tests. Herrera has a criminal history for weapons and drug possession, assault and resisting arrest, police said.

    Neighbors said Herrera, who was pronounced dead at the scene of the shooting, was a student at Foothill High School in Pleasanton. His family could not be reached Monday, and no one answered the door of the home.

    "My heart is just broken for the family," said Shari Vernor, who lives above the unit where the shooting happened and said violence is virtually unheard of in the Mediterranean-style Alamo Creek Meadows complex off Amador Valley Boulevard.

    Bloodstains were still visible Monday on the front door and on the sidewalk at the home, where Herrera lived with his older sister and their mother, according to Vernor. She said she heard a woman on Sunday evening yelling, "Don't shoot him," followed by gunfire.

    Herrera "has always been really friendly and says hi to me," she said.

    The name of the officer who fired his weapon was withheld. He suffered non-life-threatening injuries and was placed on paid administrative leave pending investigations by police and the Alameda County district attorney's office.

    The incident is the third fatal officer-involved shooting in the Bay Area in recent months in which police shot and killed people they said were armed with baseball bats.

    Last month, Santa Clara police shot and killed a suicidal 53-year-old woman after she charged at them with an aluminum bat, police said. In February, Alameda County sheriff's deputies — who also patrol Dublin under contract — shot and killed a 61-year-old man in Castro Valley after he allegedly swung a bat at them.


    McClatchy-Tribune News Service

    Copyright 2014 the San Francisco Chronicle

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    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    The moral of the story:

    Don't take a bat to a gun fight.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

    “Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.”
    - H. G. Wells -

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    Senior Member Array Hatrix's Avatar
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    This is why we need comprehensive bat control.

    Master of the Tactical Back Flip
    Internet Gun Expert

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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Just cleaning up the gene pool!

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    Sky Pilot I hear you and this one is done but our mental illness program in the US is criminal. We have no facilities and these people off their meds and unstable just keep getting dumped out into the population. We can't continue to put the population at risk and ignore there are people that need to be detained in mental facilities where they are not allowed to go off their meds.

    I am grateful the officers are OK.

    Respectfully,
    Bill

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    Senior Member Array nontechguy's Avatar
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    And at the same time, good people who may need some help are afraid to seek it because they might end up being locked up (committed) for no reason. Of course, then they could lose their right to own firearms (in some states.)
    Check out the story of the woman this happened to in CA. This has also happened to far too many vets.
    "The time is now near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be freemen or slaves."
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    Sky Pilot I hear you and this one is done but our mental illness program in the US is criminal. We have no facilities and these people off their meds and unstable just keep getting dumped out into the population. We can't continue to put the population at risk and ignore there are people that need to be detained in mental facilities where they are not allowed to go off their meds.

    I am grateful the officers are OK.

    Respectfully,
    Bill
    Not understanding this trend to blame thugs actions on "mental illness"

    The guy already had a long criminal history of drug use, assault, was pulled of his buddy because he was a meth head.

    The only mention of a mental breakdown was by the woman that called in. He was doing what he had history of doing. Being a thug, getting doped up and attacking someone.

    Which is the case for most of the so called mental illness sufferers that do this kind of stuff. They were thugs when they were kids and if they live long enough they grow up to be adult thugs. You can put the thug in a mental hospital and drug him till he cant move. But hes still a thug.

    The only meds he was on was meth far as I can read unless I missed something. If you over cook your noodle on crack or meth etc till your a violent nutbag that in my book aint mental illness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    Sky Pilot I hear you and this one is done but our mental illness program in the US is criminal. We have no facilities and these people off their meds and unstable just keep getting dumped out into the population. We can't continue to put the population at risk and ignore there are people that need to be detained in mental facilities where they are not allowed to go off their meds.

    I am grateful the officers are OK.

    Respectfully,
    Bill
    But who's to decide who to detain and force medicate? Psychiatrists don't have confidence in their ability to predict who is a violent criminal. Are judges and social services any better?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Distinguished Member Array Recon1342's Avatar
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    If all the sane people had guns, the crazy ones would get off fewer shots...
    The Opinion of others I very little regard, & have a thorough Contempt for all men, be their Names Characters & Stations what they may, who appear to be the irreclaimable Enemies of Religion & Liberty.
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  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    Sky Pilot I hear you and this one is done but our mental illness program in the US is criminal. We have no facilities and these people off their meds and unstable just keep getting dumped out into the population. We can't continue to put the population at risk and ignore there are people that need to be detained in mental facilities where they are not allowed to go off their meds.

    I am grateful the officers are OK.

    Respectfully,
    Bill
    Bill: I agree that this is a huge problem in our country, and the problem is compounded by our American concepts of Freedom and self-will. Like Pistology pointed out, who gets to decide what individuals get involuntarily committed--and as nontechguy pointed out--once you get involuntarily committed--say bye-bye to your firearm rights. Also to note--the Federal DOJ is seeking to have that broadened to those who are involuntarily committed to OUTPATIENT treatment.

    I don't have an answer, just know that its a huge, and growing, problem.


    ghost1958: Not understanding this trend to blame thugs actions on "mental illness"

    The guy already had a long criminal history of drug use, assault, was pulled of his buddy because he was a meth head.

    The only mention of a mental breakdown was by the woman that called in. He was doing what he had history of doing. Being a thug, getting doped up and attacking someone.

    Which is the case for most of the so called mental illness sufferers that do this kind of stuff. They were thugs when they were kids and if they live long enough they grow up to be adult thugs. You can put the thug in a mental hospital and drug him till he cant move. But hes still a thug.

    The only meds he was on was meth far as I can read unless I missed something. If you over cook your noodle on crack or meth etc till your a violent nutbag that in my book aint mental illness.
    Ghost--Sometimes its hard to tell the difference. Thugs do drugs, get violent and act crazy. Often time, folks who have legitimate mental illness end up acting out by doing drugs, getting violent and acting crazy. How do you tell them apart? Well, if they come at you swinging a bat, it doesn't make much difference at that point does it?? But from a larger, preventative point of view for our cultures as a whole, yeah, it does make a difference in an attempt to treat folks with legitimate mental illness in a humane, intelligent manner that takes their own rights and our rights to safety into consideration.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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    - Ronald Reagan

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    Attempting to kill people whether with a gun or a bat can get you killed. It would seem that some folks want the only danger to be to the attacked. Yes we do have a mental illness problem, don't we?
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    THis is a tough one. Thug or EDP? Often it's the same thing. A lot of folks that have emotional issues self medicate with illegal drugs. Some people commit violent crime because of mental issues, and some do it because thats their life style.

    The idea that a shrink cant predict violence is hooie. Anyone can predict future violence based on past violence. If a mentally ill person has done violence before, they are likely to do it again. The problem is when the police are not called in there may be no record.

    A persons mental status should have no consiquence in cases of self defense. An officer/deputy or an armed citizen cant be concerned while defending theirs or anothers life. It's only after that the DOA's mental condition comes into play. Usually by the media, and the anti's. Their theory is that I chould allow someone to assault me or worse because he's mentally deficient.
    Dead from an EDP is exactly the same as dead from a professional hit man.

    I believe the largest danger in revamping the mental illness issue is false or wrong diagnosis. I'm sure that if any or all of us sat down with a shrink, he'd find something wrong. The prevailing attitude of "You dont think like me so you must be crazy" is a problem. I worry that this will be one of the anti's end run around the constitution to gun control. I can see a liberal monied shrink diagnosing a poor family man living in a bad neighborhood to be paranoid because he own's a gun for protection.
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    Senior Member Array Donn's Avatar
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    Ever notice when an incident like this happens, there's always an army of friends and relations, usually female, telling anyone who'll listen, (especially if a camera and microphone are involved), "What a nice kid the deceased was, how he was turning his life around. He was happy-go-lucky, wouldn't hurt a fly."
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    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Glad the cop is OK.

    Had something similar happen when I was in Abilene with the guy rushing out of his house with a pry bar in his hand.

    He beat the cop pretty bad before the cop shot him but the sick thing is he was released from the hospital and made bail before the cop got out of the hospital.

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    Ghost I agree with your entire statement. I also said this one was done. In the article it told of the other shootings where the people were trying to kill themselves.

    The thought of who declares them insane is always a tough nut to crack and we have gone full circle. We don't put anybody away anymore. we just parole them to the public care. If the answer we as a society want to take is let the public kill them off it is OK with me.

    We already have a system where an officer not even having a degree in any subject can put a 5150 72 hour hold on somebody and remove all those gun rights we hold so dear.

    Look at the sex offender solution put them back on the street and let the day care weed them out. I could never treat a normal human and reverse their like for the opposite sex the same holds true for people that like little boys or girls.

    If we are happy with the system I am all for it. I happen to think we are better than this but I am often wrong.
    gatorbait51 likes this.

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