No matter what, you are at a disadvantage

No matter what, you are at a disadvantage

This is a discussion on No matter what, you are at a disadvantage within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; People always are trying to figure what to do when a critical incident takes place in their life. More likely than not, it will never ...

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Thread: No matter what, you are at a disadvantage

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array oldman45's Avatar
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    No matter what, you are at a disadvantage

    People always are trying to figure what to do when a critical incident takes place in their life. More likely than not, it will never happen to you.

    Yet if it does, you are already at a disadvantage. Your attacker, intruder or whomever already knows to what extent they are going in order to achieve their goal, be it rob, rape, kill or what the situation is.

    You, on the other hand, do not know what they will do or to what extent they are willing to take things. This puts you at a disadvantage.

    Why does one carry a firearm if they are not going to use it? The time to display their weapon coupled with verbal commands is not what one should do. If the intended victim pulls a weapon, they best come out pulling the trigger. It is not the time to surrender to the demands or to decide if you want to hurt or possibly kill them. Your life can be at risk and you cannot be sure they will not severely injure or kill you. If they find a gun on you, the chance of them using that gun on you or someone else goes up. LEO are trained to never surrender their weapon and civilians should be the same way. However law enforcement tells us just do whatever the perp says while they do not do such and why should we.

    If a person cannot or is not able to take a life, they should not be carrying a firearm. If they feel someone will not hurt them but only take their money, car, jewelry or whatever, they may just be fooling themselves. I know of two religious denominations tells ladies to submit to rape rather than risk injury to themselves and to not injure their attacker. Well, submission is consentual and not rape. No woman should submit to such, no matter what their church or anyone else teaches.

    I am not saying create an instant firefight either. Again, you are at a disadvantage. None of us can draw and fire, especially accurately, at a person holding a gun on you before they can pull a trigger. This moreso correct when your gun is concealed. You should take the first chance to take out your attacker when you can do so in a timely manner when and where you are fairly assured you will be gaining the advantage over your attacker.

    All too often I see where people could have done something and did nothing. They went in at a disadvantage and remained that way until the end. If we are to come out ahead, we must gain the advantage at some point during the confrontation.
    A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.

    "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Buzz kill...
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

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    I have spent thousands training to learn what to do in critical situations, which has paid off at least three times in the past year.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

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    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    It takes 1-2 seconds for a person to process an event sometimes, especially if in a state of concentration on something else. That's why your first reaction should be to gain distance, time and cover or concealment. It's not just to get a better shooting position or to make space between you and the BG. It's to gain time to think.

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    Member Array nortelrye's Avatar
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    Your post is well written and raises some excellent points for people who carry to consider.

    Well, submission is consentual and not rape.
    Except for that part. That part is .

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array oldman45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    It takes 1-2 seconds for a person to process an event sometimes, especially if in a state of concentration on something else. That's why your first reaction should be to gain distance, time and cover or concealment. It's not just to get a better shooting position or to make space between you and the BG. It's to gain time to think.
    I frequently testify to such. It is called perception / reaction time. A prudent person with normal intelligence can perceive to an event in .75 seconds. Reaction time varies but increases when multiple decisions are options. Usually reaction time is less than 1/2 second. When someone has the drop on you is not the time to run (gain distance). Many, many people have been shot while trying to put distance between them and their assailant. Reaction time is only in processing the options and not the time it will take to physically do the action decided.

    The brain can process things faster than we can react but we can begin reacting. Often, the proper reaction is to do nothing. Time is on our side. The more we think things through, the more the likelyhood of making the right decision.
    A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.

    "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    There was a time when I was in my early thirties that after watching my then 5 year old son do karate and Jujitsu. I decided to take the adult course. And i have to admit my little KARATE training has saved me numerous times. Not what you might think. One of the key features of the training wa spent...learning how to fall down. Falling backwards, forwards and doing some body rolls. so while working in Industrial environments, where trips and falls are a serious concern. I have fallen a few times , but the karate/Jujitsu training kicked in and i was able to protect my head and back from really serious injury. Muscle memory really works.
    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves !"
    Edwards R. Murrow

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    Senior Member Array ugh762x39's Avatar
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    How will you react and can you shoot someone, are questions that you cannot answer assuredly until you have been faced with that situation. If never faced with that decision, you can answer truthfully to the affirmative but, you can never be sure.
    For me, I have pulled the trigger so, I do not even ponder that question anymore. I do still think about my reactions, though. Each time that I have been faced with a situation that has forced me to draw, I have become very, very......calm. Whatever emotions, edginess or, feelings that I am experiencing leading up to the draw, they vanish as soon as my weapon clears the holster. I cannot explain it and it doesn't seem natural but, I guess it is what it is.
    Has anyone else experienced this?
    oldman45 and Recon1342 like this.
    "If you can do it, you damn well better be able to look at it!".....Matt Helm

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    Member Array Ducmonster's Avatar
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    I agree with much of what the OP states but, I have to strongly disagree with one statement. "Submission is consensual and not rape". Submission due
    to threat of violence is certainly still rape.

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    The OP brings up some good points. In the meantime, all we can do is train, practice, prepare, and hope that we will never need to execute our efforts of the said.

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    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugh762x39 View Post
    How will you react and can you shoot someone, are questions that you cannot answer assuredly until you have been faced with that situation. If never faced with that decision, you can answer truthfully to the affirmative but, you can never be sure.
    For me, I have pulled the trigger so, I do not even ponder that question anymore. I do still think about my reactions, though. Each time that I have been faced with a situation that has forced me to draw, I have become very, very......calm. Whatever emotions, edginess or, feelings that I am experiencing leading up to the draw, they vanish as soon as my weapon clears the holster. I cannot explain it and it doesn't seem natural but, I guess it is what it is.
    Has anyone else experienced this?
    I've had two situations where I was in the process of being robbed and the first one had a weapon, the second was multiple attackers. I drew both times. As I was lining up the sights, things were crystal clear and everything slowed down. I can honestly say I was read to fire. Thankfully both times the attackers dispersed rather quickly. Before I could get a shot off. Their instinctual reaction was to turn tail and run.

    You're 100% correct though! You don't know until faced with that situation how you will react.

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    I often tell gun owners to watch stuff like America's Funniest Home videos and pay attention to those videos that show how people react when surprised suddenly. They often jump back and scream. Why then, do so many think that they will react differently if surprised by a bad guy? Do not get me started about how there are so many who carry a gun as a talisman to ward off evil. Most of the people I know who carry a gun, have never once shot after drawing a gun. Everyone is calm and tough in their own minds and yet, as I learned in Vietnam, none ever picture themselves scared and soiling their pants, and yet it happens.
    The chief danger in life is that you may take too many precautions. - Alfred Adler

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    Distinguished Member Array oldman45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducmonster View Post
    I agree with much of what the OP states but, I have to strongly disagree with one statement. "Submission is consensual and not rape". Submission due
    to threat of violence is certainly still rape.
    Not in a court of law. The question will be asked by a defense attorney that will go something like this: "Mrs X, did you consent to the penetration?" You say you did not but there was no attempt to get away or stop the act. You did not leave any marks on the defendant, no scratches or bruises. I must assume you did not mind what took place.

    Sometimes women will become involved in a consentual act but later file a rape charge due to whatever reason. I just testified in such a case. The "victim" filed the charge. The guy went to jail. At trial (11 months later) she recanted on the stand.

    An attack of any sort needs a degree of resistance.
    A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.

    "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducmonster View Post
    I agree with much of what the OP states but, I have to strongly disagree with one statement. "Submission is consensual and not rape". Submission due
    to threat of violence is certainly still rape.
    It is right up until the Defense attorney tears her apart on the stand .. .
    EN MI VIDA AL MAL NO TEMERÉ, POR QUE EN MI CORAZÓN Y MIS DOS .38 SUPER COLT.

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    Member Array hdhnict's Avatar
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    I feel most of us are smart enough to avoid dangerous places and situations where needing/using a weapon is certain.
    That being said, finding yourself needing/using a weapon will likely be a surprise if/when it happens.
    Disbelief and confusion are going to slow your response.
    If you are the object of an attack, you are in the fight before you realize it. A disadvantage.

    One advantage that most people forget, very few opening shots are instantly fatal.
    Keep shooting until you or the threat is dead!

    Under threat of force, it is not submission. It is coersion/duress.

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