Draw to Deter, or draw to kill...

Draw to Deter, or draw to kill...

This is a discussion on Draw to Deter, or draw to kill... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have had my CWP for a year next month. I've never been in any scenario where I felt like I needed to pull/draw my ...

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Thread: Draw to Deter, or draw to kill...

  1. #1
    Member Array gitaryzt1985's Avatar
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    Draw to Deter, or draw to kill...

    I have had my CWP for a year next month. I've never been in any scenario where I felt like I needed to pull/draw my SA....thank the good Lord.

    But, one thing from my CC Class is troubling me a bit. Our instructor was ex-LEO and currently does firearms training. He made the statement that you do not draw your SA to deter, but rather to kill. He was explaining how you should never draw your gun simply to ward off or threaten an aggressor, and that if you pull the gun it should be for the sole purpose of putting a bullet in them.

    So I've been reading and hearing stories of how drawing your SA can actually cause the aggressor to rethink his/her plan and flee...a good thing right? However, I was instructed to keep it in the holster until you absolutely are sure you are going to shoot someone. He said the best thing to do is to put your hand on it and call out that you have the weapon, and if they continue, pull and fire.

    Can anyone confirm this either way? If the aggressor has a weapon then I'm going to definitely pull to kill, but what if an aggressor has no visible weapon in his/her hands?


  2. #2
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    You draw to STOP the threat.

    NOT to kill. To STOP.

    I would never, except in circumstances beyond the scope of this question, draw to threaten, intimidate, harrass, bluff or announce...............

    My answer is only in the context of drawing to address a threat to your life.

    Your goal is to STOP the threat or eliminate the threat.

    Your instructor had it 100% wrong on this issue. It is never to kill.

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    VIP Member Array lionround's Avatar
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    I know I will catch flak for this, but I must disagree with your instructor. You draw to eliminate the threat. If drawing and not firing eliminates the threat then you have accomplished your goal.

    Let's say there is a BG with a BB gun that looks real. He points it at you and you decide to draw against the drop. As you clear your holster, he drops/throws his. He is now disarmed and you are standing there holding your weapon. According to your instructor, I now have to shoot this unarmed party. I don't think so. I have eliminated the threat by the BG disarming.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Your instructor was wrong. There are to many scenarios to list, but if you pull your gun and the BG runs, does this not end the threat? That is the purpose of carrying a weapon, to end the threat.

    If you need to pull your gun, you best be sure that the situation warrants that type of response. The situation will dictate whether you shoot or do not shoot....
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    Senior Member Array kukla's Avatar
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    you could wind up with prison time by following that advice
    "I plan ahead. That way, I don't have to do anything right now!"

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitaryzt1985 View Post
    I have had my CWP for a year next month. I've never been in any scenario where I felt like I needed to pull/draw my SA....thank the good Lord.

    But, one thing from my CC Class is troubling me a bit. Our instructor was ex-LEO and currently does firearms training. He made the statement that you do not draw your SA to deter, but rather to kill. He was explaining how you should never draw your gun simply to ward off or threaten an aggressor, and that if you pull the gun it should be for the sole purpose of putting a bullet in them.

    So I've been reading and hearing stories of how drawing your SA can actually cause the aggressor to rethink his/her plan and flee...a good thing right? However, I was instructed to keep it in the holster until you absolutely are sure you are going to shoot someone. He said the best thing to do is to put your hand on it and call out that you have the weapon, and if they continue, pull and fire.

    Can anyone confirm this either way? If the aggressor has a weapon then I'm going to definitely pull to kill, but what if an aggressor has no visible weapon in his/her hands?
    First, we don't shoot to kill, we shoot to stop the threat (as has already been mentioned).

    Second, the question of what to do if the BG doesn't have a weapon is a tough one. If you truly feel your life is in danger, you can draw, but you are probably going to have a hard time explaining why you used lethal force (or the threat of lethal force) on an unarmed man. However, if you are carrying, there is ALWAYS a weapon involved, and if it does go "hands-on," then there is a chance the BG could get your gun and use it against you. I don't have a good answer for this question, other than, have another option available, like pepper spray.
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    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionround View Post
    I know I will catch flak for this, but I must disagree with your instructor. You draw to eliminate the threat. If drawing and not firing eliminates the threat then you have accomplished your goal.

    Let's say there is a BG with a BB gun that looks real. He points it at you and you decide to draw against the drop. As you clear your holster, he drops/throws his. He is now disarmed and you are standing there holding your weapon. According to your instructor, I now have to shoot this unarmed party. I don't think so. I have eliminated the threat by the BG disarming.

    My .02
    I disagree. I don't think you will get much flak.

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    Member Array CCinaG26's Avatar
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    Does a threat exist that is causing you to reasonably fear for your life? Can a gun even stop the threat that is making you fear for your life? Very simple. The threat could end at any time between you drawing or potentially firing. If shooting your gun is needed to stop the threat then you keep shooting until the threat no longer exists or until the threat no longer causes you to reasonably fear for your life.

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    Only to STOP THE THREAT, drawing your weapon in an attempt to intimidate or deter is only likely to embolden an attacker.

    Again, only to STOP THE THREAT.

    That is all.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Like those before me, I disagree with your instructor.

    Never draw to kill. The purpose of drawing and firing, or not firing, is to STOP the threat.

    Once the threat is eliminated, your task is completed. Just because you draw your weapon, there is nothing that says you must fire.
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  11. #11
    Member Array gitaryzt1985's Avatar
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    I agree with all of you so far...I really do...

    The instructors point was that in all of these scenarios, I shouldn't have even drawn the gun, but rather shouted that I had it. His only justification was that bad things can happen to you if you pull and don't shoot and that he'd seen it in LE. He said what if you pull and the bad guy doesn't run and shoots you first. I got his illustration when he was explaining it, but I don't think it applies to every scenario...

    I am glad to hear your answers...makes me feel like I'm not crazy

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    Senior Member Array AmmoFan01's Avatar
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    You only use the amount of force necessary to stop the threat. I hope someone doesn't trust your instructors advice because they could end up in prison.

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitaryzt1985 View Post
    I agree with all of you so far...I really do...

    The instructors point was that in all of these scenarios, I shouldn't have even drawn the gun, but rather shouted that I had it. His only justification was that bad things can happen to you if you pull and don't shoot and that he'd seen it in LE. He said what if you pull and the bad guy doesn't run and shoots you first. I got his illustration when he was explaining it, but I don't think it applies to every scenario...

    I am glad to hear your answers...makes me feel like I'm not crazy
    No, you're definitely not crazy. Sounds like your instructor needs some instruction.

    How did your instructor think that telling someone you had a gun would make you less likely to take incoming fire than drawing it?? Weird...
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    Are you sure that your instructor didn't say something more like: "if you draw your weapon you need to be prepared to kill."

    If the instructor told you that drawing you weapon was for the "sole" purpose of killing someone who you perceive to be a serious threat that is is ridiculous advice.

    Maybe that's why he is an ex-LEO.

    One of the responsibilities of carrying a weapon is using good judgment and common sense in the way you deploy and use that weapon.

    It is not a tool for killing it is for self defense!!!
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitaryzt1985 View Post
    He made the statement that you do not draw your SA to deter, but rather to kill. He was explaining how you should never draw your gun simply to ward off or threaten an aggressor, and that if you pull the gun it should be for the sole purpose of putting a bullet in them.

    I have heard many instructors make this point, however poorly worded. You should not draw to deter, but rather with the resolve to kill if necessary. It should be for the sole purpose of putting bullets in them if they don't stop the threat.
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