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About LinkBacksIf the bg's gun is in your face, you have already lost. Time to move on to plan b. I've posted here before, and I'll post it again I'm sure- action is faster than reaction.
This is a discussion on What would you do? ATM scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If the bg's gun is in your face, you have already lost. Time to move on to plan b. I've posted here before, and I'll ...
If the bg's gun is in your face, you have already lost. Time to move on to plan b. I've posted here before, and I'll post it again I'm sure- action is faster than reaction.
"Just blame Sixto"
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M&P Doc- Just ask.
Hope he doesn't shoot and wait to get an opportunity.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
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Thats the reason I don't use ATMs any more except in a dire emergency. If I do use one it's in a well lighted and busy area. I would never let someone get that close to me to start with. Be prepared when going to any ATM. Be aware at all times to the point of haveing one hand on your gun.
Last edited by Tom G; January 14th, 2007 at 07:45 PM. Reason: goofed
Randy,Originally Posted by randytulsa2
I like the way you think...and it might just work.
In a recent movie, a car load of young 'thugs' approached an old man and started questioning him about how much money he had. The old guy started digging...pulled out his wallet, "You want this?"...pulled off his watch, "You want this?"...then he reached around back and pulled out his revolver and calmly asked again, "You want this?" The thugs yelled, "F*** *** old man!" as they sped away.
The point being, the distraction kept them off guard while he was able to pull his weapon!
ret
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
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lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like that one!!!!
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ATMs are for the. I get cash from a retailer when I buy something with my debit card, or for large amounts, I will write a check at the bank drive thru.
If I did use an ATM and were approached from behind, it is impossible to say what I would do without knowing the exact circumstances. If I saw an opportunity to draw and fire, I would do so. My thinking would be to survive, not stop the BG from robbing me. That said, if the BG had a knife, there is a good chance that I would draw.
Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.
I actually do use ATM's. Most of my friends and I prefer having cash for going to bars than opening up a tab, a lot easier to keep track of cash that way (I know drinking is bad, and going to bars can cause problems and I can't carry there, but me and my friends are still young, so let us have our fun.) But about the only time we go is on our way out for the night, since ATMs are all over campus. We usually try to use the ones on the main street, and always move in a group, so as one person gets out money, the rest of us always turn to face the outside to look for threats. Most of the guys I hang out with used to play football and/or are bouncers with me, we have never had a problem in 4 years here.
I won't use an ATM if I am alone, just leaves you too vulnerable. If i turned and saw a gun at my face, he could have my cash, which i would probably throw down to distract him so I could draw or at least throw a punch at him.
If he wasn't a clear threat (i.e. no weapon visible) I would politely ask him to back up, if not, I would cancel the transaction and go elsewhere.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
My Firearms Blog: Little Miami Tactical Shooter's Corner
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use the drive thrus or at min. use atm with the buzz thru door.
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Your scenario is fine. Don't think that any one here is condemning you for your actions. We tend to chalk everything up to experience and share so that perhaps another does not fall victim to the same circustances with a fatal outcome. At least this is the hope.
This is a scenario that we have all been in at some time or another, whether it be before we got our permit to carry, or just one time that we let our guard down with out realizing it. It may not have been at an ATM, perhaps the checkout line at the local gas-n-go, McDonald's, or grocery store.
I like Leadslinger's idea of having his BUG in hand, still concealed, just in case. Something I hadn't thought of, and I have been carrying for nearly 12 years. Some of the things that have been mentioned in other posts and threads are things that I should have been doing for all 12 years, as one would think it to be simple common sense, but like the dummy that I am, I have not. I do now, but have been quite lax in the years prior.
Again, great post. The longer you have access to places like this, the more you will learn. You are just getting into the game. I wish I had had a venue such as this when I started carrying. Perhaps you won't make a lot of the mistakes that many of us have.
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Never said I would shoot him in the back.
Let's put it this way: If the intended BG were to demand my money and wallet, and had no weapon on him that I could see, he is liable to get a swift kick to the boys, and I am backing away, hand on my weapon until I have satisfied myself that he is no longer a threat, and that he didn't have any buddies in the bushes.
If said BG has a weapon, at this point, my life is threatened, and I will react in whatever fashion is avaliable to me at that time. I hope that I will have the opportunity to create distance, and I will use distraction. I might be broke, but I can afford to loose twenty bucks if it means that I get to go home. Personally, I don't care what happens to the BG. If he gets arrested and spends the better part of his life in prison, so what? If I have to use lethal force to protect myself, and the BG becomes a paraplegic or a quadraplegic, so what? If the BG dies in a warm pool of his own hemoglobin, again, so what? I have gone home to my family, $20 poorer, but I am still at home.
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I recall that around Christmastime last year, about 20 people were robbed at gunpoint while waiting in line to buy the Playstation 3. Granted, they may not have been bouncers...
My point is that if I read correctly, you all are on your way to go out to the bars, and thus I assume you are all not carrying any CCW, since going into the bars armed would be illegal. So you're unarmed, not CCWing, as you go to the ATM. How are you any better protected than the 20 people in line for the video game system? Your friends may be big, burly guys, but what would they do against a pair of guys who come up pointing guns at them? Sure, vigilance is great, but vigilance plus having a gun is better. I would contemplate a better time and way of getting money for the bars. If you want to go to the bars, fine, no one standing in your way. Hopefully you will soon come to realize that bars aren't all that much fun, and it's pretty foolish to spend on two beers what could get you a whole six pack if you bought it at the beverage store...
I've been thinking...If he wasn't a clear threat (i.e. no weapon visible) I would politely ask him to back up, if not, I would cancel the transaction and go elsewhere.
If one were uncomfortable with how close the person is standing behind him at the ATM, one could just say, "Excuse me, would you mind giving me a little more space while I do this?" Anyone who would refuse should be made to understand, with your next comment, that there is ample reason for you to regard and deal with anyone who would refuse that sensible request as a threat. "You're refusing a very reasonable request; do you want me to regard you as a hostile threat because you're crowding me at an ATM?" ("Well, do ya, punk?")
Who wants to be perceived as menacing at an ATM? Answer: Only an actual bad guy. I would suspect that anyone else would move back. Maybe be surprised at the comment directed at them, but they'd probably move back. Anyone who doesn't, well, you probably should go orange on them, if not red.
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You mean you wouldn't snatch back your $20 while he's bleedin' out?
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din...
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There's exactly one reason why I NEVER do that. You have nowhere and nohow to get away. That is assuming the aforementioned is the case. If it's busy, that means there's probably other cars in the line right? One or two in front, maybe a few in back. Bad idea all around. No escape plan. They walk up to the window...you lose. It actually happened a few years back here in VA if I'm not mistaken. I think it was in Herndon. Given the choice, I'll take the outside ATM where at least I can keep an eye on what's going on around me and I have the space to act according to the situation.
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In many states, the slugs on welfare get ATM cards, so the probabilility you'll meet unsavory characters will only increase. ATMs in cities are often referred to as victim depots, in the boderline burbs, great for car jackings too. If you see a hoodie (sweatshirt) anywhere, change your plans.
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In a hypothetical like this I would assume that the majority of the time the BD wants your money and doesn't really plan on hurting you. (yes I know there are some crazy people out there but hurting you in most cases would get loud and decrease his chances for getting away). So asssuming he just wants the cash or wallet I'm fine with it (assuming he already has the drop on me, knife or gun, close distance with knife is just as deadly). So I'd give him whatever he wanted and get my piece ready still concealed while dialing my cell phone in my left hand.
I'd rather loose a couple grand than kill some lowlife and wind up in court about it. I'd lose more than that just by time off or work. Now if there was an instance where the lowlifes purpose was to hurt me then it'd be a different story.
This is comming from a guy who's been mugged twice in his hometown. Both times it was just money (I was 16 and 18 years old) and it was clear that the little I had was all they were going to get.
When I thought I was going to get kidnapped in Ecuador (long story) I would up arming myself with a 40oz bottle that I broke over a totally innocent guy's head, I felt really bad about that later.
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