Taser to grandma?

Taser to grandma?

This is a discussion on Taser to grandma? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok so I could not sleep and was flipping channels when I saw this story. Check this out, seems.... interesting/ strange/ stupid/ all of the ...

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  1. #1
    me [OP]
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    Question Taser to grandma?

    Ok so I could not sleep and was flipping channels when I saw this story. Check this out, seems.... interesting/ strange/ stupid/ all of the above. What are your thoughts?

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...ml?source=mypi
    http://www.koin.com/Global/story.asp?S=5995264

    There are many others sites but they all say the same things.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    I guess I need to check up on the laws for tresspass, but I think I would have called the PD. I'm not shocking grandma unless she's beating junior.

    Grandma is a little "at fault" because she refused to leave and her mannors failed her because she did threaten the family.

    Everyone's entittled to opinion, just not in my home. You have to live there or pay at least two bills. If not "thanks for your opinion but it's not your problem"
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm pro-spanking -- when it's necessary. It isn't always necessary, but it's also untrue to say that it's never warranted.

    I also feel that the grandma was a total , and for being that, I'm glad she got tasered. However, I don't think the guy was justified in resorting to that; only that I'm glad the got what was coming to her. What right did she have to say anything about how a parent disciplines his kid? Moreover, she's full of it when she says that spanking is child abuse. I'll bet she was spanked, and I'll bet she spanked her own kids. Suddenly it's altogether different, and spanking is "abuse"? No.

    I feel bad that this guy, who was acting to correct a potentially dangerous behavior by his kid (I'll bet the kid learned the lesson, btw), who had never been in trouble with the law, now has a domestic violation on his record, and will likely never be allowed to handle a firearm again in his life. (Although if he kept a stun-gun for home defense, it sounds as though he was not altogether enlightened enough to own guns in the first place.)

    What a frickin' world.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Okay, one more thing since I just noticed something about the story:

    The kid is only 7 months old?? That's too young for a spanking.

    Doesn't change how I feel about the grandma butting her nose in and making threats to call child protective services (You just . . . don't . . . threaten a parent like that -- unless we're talkin' welts on a kid, starvation, imprisonment, etc. You just . . . don't . . . throw that threat around.)

    But the guy should have thought about the inappropriateness of spanking a 7 month old kid. I'd say spankings shouldn't start til 2 years.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Take Grandma out of this. Consider your own home and a guest from down the street over for a nibble and some discussion, but that discussion goes sideways and you clearly indicate he/she is no longer welcome and you're formally asking that he/she leave immediately.

    If the son actually did demand she leave and she refused, she was committing criminal trespass. Grandma or not. Appalling because it's Grandma ... little else. Had this been some Joe from down the street over for a few minutes, it would "feel" entirely different. (Our mixed up PC sensibilities, no doubt.)

    Was he justified in using a Taser to compel a trespasser to leave?

    My perception of Tasers is pretty simple: they're not lethal force, not by any standard. And they're not very forceful for compelling an action; they're only compelling for grabbing attention, as the moment the unit stops, the person is back in "form" and can continue his/her illegal actions just as before (witness suspects who resist arrest). Tasers are feared because they make tremendous noise and sound awful, firing up the fears we all have of electricity and "being attacked" by someone. Not because they damage anything.

    Compelling little tools, for all of that. Rightly so, since they certainly grab the attention, if you're being zapped. They do risk the person falling and striking something on the way down, but otherwise they are reasonably benign little tools. And they're a legitimate tool for defense if used appropriately. Situationally, in my view, about on a par with being tossed out of a business by someone's hands on the "scruff of your neck" and forcibly guiding you through the door; short of physical beating; certainly not lethal force.

    IMO, it is perfectly reasonable to use compelling force up to physical ejection to remove an unwanted trespasser. But, in this case it's Grandma. He (likely) invited her. Though she overstayed her welcome, she's "domestically" related to the man, hence the domestic violence arrest. I would hope her criminal trespass is equally regarded, despite the PC initial perception (as in "OMG, he tased Grandma!"). I'd also like to hope that his (apparent) request for her to leave and subsequent awaiting 60sec would be considered. We'll see. I'm sure he's been arrested so that the "authorities" can get it right, else there'd be Hell to pay because of our abused sensibilities.

    I completely agree that until it's resolved whether Tasers are to become publicly acceptable defensive units, folks like this guy are going to be the test cases this perception hinges on.

    Would I have tased Grandma? Possibly, but probably not. I'd like to think I would have removed the child (to his/her room), worked on Grandma to compel her to leave, perhaps even calling police to get the point clear in her head as to the limits of her "rights" in my home. I certainly have the willpower to eject someone from my home, Grandma or not. And if that person refused, then elevated means to do so would likely be justified. The limits of someone's unwanted advice in my home stops the moment that I indicate it's no longer in my interest to have the person there. That person's going to stay and continue to insinuate on my life and actions? Not in my home, on my nickel. Grandma or not. It's the nature of basic property rights and, in this case, the right to raise one's child as one sees fit.

    It comes down to this, in essence: One may be invited, even overstay the welcome and offer unwanted advice. However, the moment a person refuses a legal demand to exit the premises he/she is committing criminal trespass and the tables turn. Nobody, Grandma included, has the right to interject herself into a family's affairs and refuse to leave when legally and rightfully demanded to cease actions and leave. Silly woman should review her position as to what rights she and her family members actually have. Sadly, it's going to come "at the point of a legal gun" for this man to prove his case. She may still not get it. He apparently is.

    As to the question of whether the guy was harming his son, well that will come down to he-said, she-said. At 7mos, some kids are starting to walk around and commit mischief. Somewhere around 1yr, a tap on the fanny helps get attention when "barked" commands don't do it. A tap is hardly a strike, and the only "facts" we have here come from a reporter's writing of Grandma's comments, and you know how reliable reporters are when news reports first hit the street. Though, generally I'd agree that 2yrs would be the basic starting point for fanny-perpendicular training methods to be acceptable for widespread use. Depends on the child. And it most certainly depends on the degree of the tap, spank, strike. Everything hinges on that.

    One more point deserves recognition: the question of whether to say much to police, reporters. According to news reports, the guy indicated he would not use the Taser if he had to do it all over again. While he probably said such a thing because of the simple fact he's been trussed and trimmed as a result, it will most certainly be twisted to appear that he agrees he was wrong in tasing Grandma. A good reminder of how important it can be to keep one's mouth closed until one has decent legal counsel, particularly when one goes off to be a test case.

    What a world.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; January 28th, 2007 at 07:05 AM. Reason: spelling and other fat-finger problems
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  6. #6
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    CCW9 thank you , I could not find the way to put my thoughts on it into words, which is why i had yet to put my thoughts down, but you hit my ever thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    According to news reports, the guy indicated he would not use the Taser if he had to do it all over again.
    my appoligies on this, let me elaborate on what he actually said to the news camera crew. When asked if he would do it again he replied, "If it meant spending another 48 hours in jail, probably not." Just another example of how the press will twist everything that is said to them.
    Last edited by me; January 28th, 2007 at 06:52 AM. Reason: typo
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

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    That's why the only thing I would EVER say to ANY member of the media is "NO COMMENT!"

    Also, just like they do with the dreaded "assault weapons" they got the weapon wrong again: huge difference between a stun gun and a Taser.
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