Ride or Too Busy - Page 3

Ride or Too Busy

This is a discussion on Ride or Too Busy within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Help second... Those with military and 'life' experience know... I'm not against helping others, but it WILL be on my terms... ret...

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Thread: Ride or Too Busy

  1. #31
    Senior Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
    Central Florida

    Interview First...

    Help second...

    Those with military and 'life' experience know...

    I'm not against helping others, but it WILL be on my terms...

    Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”

    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member

  2. #32
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    Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Never been a victim when helping some out.
    Yet, it happens.

    I had someone approach, once, who apparently needed a ride. Spoke a language I did not know. I'd never seen him before. I offered to call a cab by pulling out the cell phone ... at which point he got flustered and very angry with me. I was waxing the car at the time, so I simply put the car between me and him, swept and placed my hand on my weapon, then suggested he leave immediately. His eyes narrowed, then he left. It could easily have turned into something ugly. I still have no idea what it was about. He clearly wanted a ride somewhere; I was clearly being threatened once I made clear I was fearful of his growing agitation. He made the right choice in immediately leaving.

    A second situation was near a very busy shopping mall. It was small enough that the person could easily have gotten help with 150yds of walking. The person was healthy and active enough to jump out into traffic, ostensibly requesting help via a ride. No way was I going to stop and offer a lift to someone that agitated. Every car that stopped to avoid hitting that person who then subsequently continued driving after he got out of the roadway was met with a flurry of invective and hand signals from said "victim." A quick call to the non-emergency line of the police dept. resulted in a car being dispatched. Don't know what the result was. If the person was legit, help was provided; if dangerous, he would have been removed and the situation defused. That was providing help, though perhaps not in the form that person preferred at the time.

    So be it. In both cases, I went with my gut. I was safe and unharmed. In both cases, the "victim" went ballistic and did not appreciate help that wasn't on his own terms.

    I've lost track of several other instances where someone approached and gave off bad signals right from the start. Withdrawing to a safe position with a barrier (ie, car) between us made clear my response. A couple of times, pulling out the cell phone resulted in the person immediately exiting the area ... a clear indication my intuition was spot-on. In each of these cases, the person simply moved on, once it was clear that I took the aggressive moves as a threat. All were minor situations that went nowhere, because of immediate reaction by me to clear signals by the "victim" in need of help. If these were legit situations, a simple phone call to non-emergency police would have been met with thanks and appreciation. In no such case where I used the phone was this the response. Case closed, IMO. It is what it is.

    Friends of mine had someone approach their home, asking for assistance. He was attempting to get them to drop their guard. He got a bit angry when they didn't immediately comply. One of them went into the house to call 911/police, to request officers on-site to handle a person who was growing violent. Immediate response resulted in police taking the man into custody. Turns out he was ex-special forces, highly-trained and known to be exceedingly capable at unarmed, H2H combat. He was armed with a couple of knives, though no firearm. He had a history of strong-arm violence against innocents. He was taken to jail. I never did hear what ultimately came of it. Downside was: he knew where the family lived, where the house was. They were on their guard for months afterwards.

    It happens. Go with your gut. Never, ever use your heart over your head. 'Cause, a legitimate strong-arm crime is going to (generally) first attempt the ol' "soft shoe" tactic, to see what's possible. It's going to leverage your heart's soft spots and depend upon that for success. Your compliance depends on being lulled into a sense of comfort, at which point your guard has been lowered. At which point, you're vulnerable. It happens.

    • Proper assistance is appreciated by those truly in need, no matter the form.
    • Proper assistance is rejected by those in fear of "proper" assistance not provided on their terms. Caution is due, when such situations arise, because you're thwarting the plans against you.
    • Proper assistance need not be only in the form where you, personally, are the one providing it. You're not a taxi service; you're not an EMT; you're not the police; you're certainly not Bank Of America.
    • Agitation, upset and outward signs of distress or violence when offered assistance in a form other than expected are clear signs that the person isn't what he says he is. IMO, such people want to strong-arm you. Such people are indeed in need of a helping hand ... that via police assistance. They are simply upset that you also recognize this. Be happy that you've avoided an attack, 'cause that's exactly what has just happened.
    • If in charge of others at the time, think what being "taken out" can mean to them, such as in the original poster's scenario. Two things are now known in such situations: (a) that your house and loved ones are unprotected; and (b) that you're not there, right now. That's a very bad combination of intel for someone to have, if that person/group has bad designs on you, your family or your possessions.
    • Never, ever leave family members at the house unattended and unaware, if packing up to offer someone assistance. At minimum, go back into the house, notify the person that you're leaving, ensure that person is prepared and ready in the event something spins sideways, and then (only then) consider rendering assistance.
    • If you get bad vibes, consider that alternatives always exist. Use the cell phone. It's a beautiful tool, if you actually use it. A telephone is assistance, perhaps the best "help" you can provide.
      • Car trouble? Call AAA. As the person assuredly has cash enough to support his car habit, this should be appreciated.
      • Need a ride? Call a cab. Since the person assuredly can cough up for a cab fare, there should be no problem.
      • General trouble? Call the police non-emergency line. Since the person is absolutely a law-abiding citizen in temporary need of help, there should be no problem with this.
    • Never, ever will someone who has legitimate need be hateful, angry or fearful of legitimate help that is offered. In my experience, those whose plans against you get thwarted are the ones who get agitated and angry. What do you care? You're safe; your family's safe; your property's protected; and assistance was offered, even though it has been rejected. Nothing else matters.

    It's really that simple. All that's required to keep you out of harm's way most of the time is to keep your upper thingy removed from your lower thingy ... to be aware, circumspect, and to consider what's most important in a situation: that you and your loved ones remain safe under all circumstances. Offer what help you can and be happy that you've offered it. But don't take your eye off the goal. In other words: keep your "left" up.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; February 5th, 2007 at 10:43 AM. Reason: clarification & spelling errors
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  3. #33
    Member Array shooter1's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
    Thank you for your very eloquent and totally on target post. I consider it to be the definitive "How to Render Aid" to any citizen who might require assistance.
    Thank You!

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    Very nice CCW9mm

    Just a personal observation: I've never met an ex military who traded on that for any reason. Not to say there aren't - I'm sure there are plenty of vets who are on the grift. But I doubt any upright citizen would attempt to cash in on their service. I honestly don't think it would even occur to them since they likely have seldom, if ever, had the need to ask a stranger for assistance.


  5. #35
    Senior Member Array DodgeFB's Avatar
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    That is a great post. I am going to have my wife read it.
    “Dogs offer one of the most stable and enduring friendships on this earth.”

    Willard Scott

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Piedmont Triad, NC
    Each assist situation is easilly as different as each shoot/no shoot situation.

    That said, I have a couple of cab companies programmed into my phone for this very reason. I will not leave my family at home to render aid to a stranger if I have that feeling. If at my offer to call a cab, they get aggitated, I will make a call, but not to BlueBird (local cab company in my area).

    If I had cash on me, I would offer to pay for the cab, but I will not give money to an individual.

    To make things simple, I make no outward gestures as to being compliant in any way. This has proven to be enough to weed out those that really need the help and those looking for a hand-out.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array INTJ's Avatar
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    Middle Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    So, do you give the guy the ride or do you just tell him that you can't right now. Or what do you do?
    Call his friend/convenience store. Offer him some water and the shade tree to sit under while he's waiting.
    "Beware of the man who only owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it."

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    St. Charles County Missouri
    Quote Originally Posted by albundy View Post
    no ride, but I'll call the police to see if they can help you.
    My answer exactly!
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
    - Winston Churchill
    Endowment Life Member - NRA
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    U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980

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