Holding a Bad Guy
This is a discussion on Holding a Bad Guy within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If the presentation of a firearm stops the attack/advance of a bad guy, should you keep him detained while you wait for the police?
February 11th, 2007 08:17 AM
Holding a Bad Guy
If the presentation of a firearm stops the attack/advance of a bad guy, should you keep him detained while you wait for the police?
Encorage him to leave and wait for the police?
Leave him there and call the police as you leave?
February 11th, 2007 09:23 AM
well it has to depend on what he was doing, who is at risk, and so on. you are NOT the police, of course, so my inclination is just to see that the innocent are safe right at that moment. if we can leave, good. if not, then he can if I feel he will flee. I am not sure you can answer in general, but my inclination is not to try to detain bad guys unless I see some immediate danger in their leaving.
Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..
February 11th, 2007 09:24 AM
There was a very good discussion recently, on this sort of thing.
Generally speaking, I'd think: hold him for police.
Some of the many LEO's on the forum should have some good suggestions.
Would depend on circumstances, for me. If my presence compromised my safety, then I might not be able to justify hanging out with a bad guy on the leash. (Might be in an exceedingly bad part of town, my family might be at increasing risk by remaining, or the situation might be deteriorating [ie, homies arriving to 'defend' him].) However, the reality is that a justified case of self-defense means that the bad guy is, almost by definition, so dangerous that being let loose to commit a crime another day would pose a deadly danger to whomever the next victim would be. I can't see letting someone go, given that reality.
I'd like to think that all cases of self-defense should result in all good things coming your way, but reality is often a mixed blessing. The law doesn't always see things the same way you will. A bad guy hung out via the legal system will end up knowing who you are ... and, by extension, so will his homies. It's gonna cost you, in terms of time, money, stress. Small price to pay? I generally think so, but that's me. So, assuming you're in the right on the self-defense action you just took, and assuming it's safe to do so, then absolutely: hold him for police.
February 11th, 2007 12:14 PM
Only hold him if you can do so safely, and that you are 100% sure a crime TOOK place, not that one was about to happen. Last time I checked, no arrests could be made by citizens or police for a crime that did not take place, no matter if it was about to or not.
Be sure you know what crime did take place, because once you take ones liberty away, you have made the arrest. You will need to be able to articulate what crime took place. Oh yeah, dont do it for minor crimes, just dont get involved other than being a good witness.
My suggestion is to only get directly involved with violent crimes, IF you can do so safely.
February 11th, 2007 02:53 PM
What are you going to do to prevent him from leaving shoot him the treat is over deadly force is over?
You can only detain him as long as he chooses to be detained, are you going to do tie-up the BG to something which means have to approach not likely, are you gonig to throw him some rope and tell him to tie himself up and what if he doesn't are you going to shoot him.
You have no power to detain someone just be glad you are ok and move on. Call 911 and report give description hope they catch them.
February 11th, 2007 03:00 PM
check out your state statute on citizen's arrest
maybe another good question to ask your gun friendly attorney
February 11th, 2007 03:28 PM
February 11th, 2007 04:03 PM
If the BG gives up and wants to leave then thats what you need to let him do. If your quick to call 911, then chances are that the BG will be caught even if he does try to flee.
February 11th, 2007 05:46 PM
if you don't know what you're doing then trying to detain someone is a very bad idea. also it would be nice to have someone covering you/watching you back at the same time. its a dangerous situation to say the least.
February 11th, 2007 05:51 PM
In My Home...
Detention will not be a problem...
On the street, I only want to be safe...If he runs, so be it! If he decides to lay on the ground...that's cool too.
I would only be interested in making that decision concerning crimes against me or mine...for others, I'll be a good witness!
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February 11th, 2007 07:46 PM
I agree with the comment that the bad guy has a very little window of opportunity to stop his aggression.
If he sees my gun coming out and stops, I can see telling him forcefully to get on the ground. If he turns and runs at that point so be it.
The other concern I have is that I have never practiced holding a gun on someone with one hand while trying to manipulate a cell phone with the other.
My priority would be to keep the innocents safe. If the bad guy leaves, that's a job for the LEO's.
fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).
February 12th, 2007 02:30 AM
Sounds like most are refering to a scenario in public or on the streets?
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere..... but on the topic of holding the BG; what if it is in the home?
He just plain gives up and lays face down in the kitchen?
The crime of B&E has all ready been committed.
Using lethal force to stop someone from escaping isn't an option, and I believe after a period of time will realize this, and not stay put for very long.
Unless someone might happen to be patrolling in the area; response time would be about 20 minutes before L.E. arrives.
I think I would find it difficult to let someone walk out of my home after they broke in, I caught them in the act, and they were willing to give up at first (but probably not lay there for 20 minutes).
Would citizen arrest be applicable in this situation?
If so has anyone prepared something to detain, cuffs, rope, ect? Seems tricky;
"Please Mr. BG, could you wait here while I go to the garage and get some clothesline?"
If the dog is around I could put her in a bark and hold, but most likely I would have closed her off somewhere safe first.
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