Would you use lethal force to defend against a non-lethal/less-lethal weapon?

Would you use lethal force to defend against a non-lethal/less-lethal weapon?

This is a discussion on Would you use lethal force to defend against a non-lethal/less-lethal weapon? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As corollary to the discussion over in http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...afoul-law.html , let's review a somewhat opposite situation... You and your wife are walking in a parking structure ...

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Thread: Would you use lethal force to defend against a non-lethal/less-lethal weapon?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Would you use lethal force to defend against a non-lethal/less-lethal weapon?

    As corollary to the discussion over in Threshold for deployment of a non-lethal- When can you run afoul of the law?, let's review a somewhat opposite situation...

    You and your wife are walking in a parking structure when you find your self cornered by two individuals- one holding a can of bear spray, the other with a handheld stun gun. Escape or retreat is not viable. They order you to hand over your purse/wallet/wedding rings, or else...

    Do you draw?

    Do you draw and fire immediately?

    What if you have a pacemaker for a irregular heart condition and your wife is an extreme asthmatic?

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    Ex Member Array pickwick's Avatar
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    This is getting silly. Of course you draw and fire. What if you are a paraplegic? A diabetic? What if your wife is retarded? What if there is a bear in the corner? A snake on the ceiling? What if you have diarrhea?

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    Senior Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    This discussion is occurring because MANY, MANY people have completely different criteria for what represents a "life threatening situation" and what "justifies use of lethal force".

    I intentionally selected "non-lethals" as the perp's tools of the trade to highlight these perceptions.

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    Ex Member Array pickwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    This discussion is occurring because MANY, MANY people have completely different criteria for what represents a "life threatening situation" and what "justifies use of lethal force".

    I intentionally selected "non-lethals" at the perp's tools of the trade to highlight these perceptions.
    I apologize. I had a bad taste in my mouth from another similar thread. I don't think the fact that the items they have are non-lethal matters. Their intent is to rob and do possible bodily harm, and you cannot know how bad they might harm you after you are incapacitated. I would feel justified in shooting, in Ga., anyway, and take my chances with the DA.

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    Member Array Clandestiny's Avatar
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    This sounds like an armed robbery attempt which the law justifies the use of lethal force to resist.

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    VIP Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    yes.

    They have weapons. They have intent, ability, and you cannot retreat.

    also keep in mind the technical definition of "non-lethals" is becoming "less lethals" - because- as your post suggests, there are times spray are electro-weapons CAN be lethal.

    ...and if you do not, and they spray/taze/whatever you, now you have just armed them with YOUR gun.

    being cornered in a dark parking garage by two dudes wielding weapons more than qualifies. doesn't matter if those weapons are knives, guns, bats, stun guns, pepper sprays, whatever.

    ability, intent, opportunity. are you afraid what they are going to do? absolutely.
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    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    " A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304, manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904 or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.

    B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.

    C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if the person is acting to prevent what the person reasonably believes is the imminent or actual commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.

    D. This section includes the use or threatened use of physical force or deadly physical force in a person's home, residence, place of business, land the person owns or leases, conveyance of any kind, or any other place in this state where a person has a right to be. "


    That answer it for you ?


    A threat is a threat .. People have and can die from "non lethal " weapons even OC spray ... Heck people were set on fire by mixing older OC spray and taser ....Or long tearm vision problems from OC
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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    As corollary to the discussion over in Threshold for deployment of a non-lethal- When can you run afoul of the law?, let's review a somewhat opposite situation...

    You and your wife are walking in a parking structure when you find your self cornered by two individuals- one holding a can of bear spray, the other with a handheld stun gun. Escape or retreat is not viable. They order you to hand over your purse/wallet/wedding rings, or else...

    Do you draw? Most likely, Yes

    Do you draw and fire immediately? Most likely, Yes

    What if you have a pacemaker for a irregular heart condition and your wife is an extreme asthmatic? Same as if I/we did not

    I see this situation as the start of something that's unknown but could be life threatening and waiting could be dangerous to your and your wife's health. Non-lethal/less-lethal there is still weapon involved. Actual situation, would need to be there to know for sure, but most likely they would be shot. A threat is a threat...in my eyes anyway.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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    Two-on-one demanding my money or else, my wife present, they don't even need bear spray or stun gun to get a quick primer on disparity of force.
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    Disparity of force, intent to rob you articulated. The fact the spray could incapacitate you [ as it's supposed to when applied ] to a non response, if you choose to go, you're on terra firma.
    The mind is the limiting factor

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    Senior Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Thanks folks. In most of my hypothetical scenarios, the purpose is not to get answers on what to do for myself (been carrying regularly for 25 years- pretty good idea of what's what when it comes to self defense), but to put the discussion "out in public" for everybody to glean additional tidbits of common knowledge to enhance their own incident planning.

    Along that line...

    The next day the mother of one of the perps is interviewed by the local TV station...

    "He didn't have no gun or no knife, he didn't want to hurt nobody, why did they have to kill my baby???"

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    Ex Member Array pickwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    Thanks folks. In most of my hypothetical scenarios, the purpose is not to get answers on what to do for myself (been carrying regularly for 25 years- pretty good idea of what's what when it comes to self defense), but to put the discussion "out in public" for everybody to glean additional tidbits of common knowledge to enhance their own incident planning.

    Along that line...

    The next day the mother of one of the perps is interviewed by the local TV station...

    "He didn't have no gun or no knife, he didn't want to hurt nobody, why did they have to kill my baby???"
    Who cares?
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    Ex Member Array hammer1270's Avatar
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    I wouldn't use deadly force,
    I would draw my pistol, have them
    Lay their weapons on the ground,
    Give me all of their money and Jewelery,
    Then I would have them strip naked and
    Take their possessions and clothing and laugh
    all the way home :-)))
    If anyone wants to buy some nice used sneakers just PM me :-)))))

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    Member Array Powpig2002's Avatar
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    I like to think I'd draw, aim, and be able to give them a 2 count to decide. I don't want to kill anybody, but don't mistake it for weakness.

  15. #15
    Member Array Powpig2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    Thanks folks. In most of my hypothetical scenarios, the purpose is not to get answers on what to do for myself (been carrying regularly for 25 years- pretty good idea of what's what when it comes to self defense), but to put the discussion "out in public" for everybody to glean additional tidbits of common knowledge to enhance their own incident planning.

    Along that line...

    The next day the mother of one of the perps is interviewed by the local TV station...

    "He didn't have no gun or no knife, he didn't want to hurt nobody, why did they have to kill my baby???"
    You left out He loved to dance.

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