Fist fight while carrying - Page 2

Fist fight while carrying

This is a discussion on Fist fight while carrying within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by BikerRN OK, Dumb question time. WHY THE H E Double Hockey Sticks are you getting in to fist fights as a CCW ...

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Thread: Fist fight while carrying

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Ride4TheBrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    OK, Dumb question time.

    WHY THE H E Double Hockey Sticks are you getting in to fist fights as a CCW Holder? Are you out playing "Mall Ninja' trying to stop a shoplifter?
    I don't think he was saying that he was out looking for trouble .. it was just a concern, like.. "what if"

    I can see a situation where it could not be avoided, and the poster was asking a valid question.

    That's how I see it, anyway.
    "We must remember that one man is much
    the same as another, and that he is best
    who is trained in the severest school."
    ~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    OK, Dumb question time.

    WHY THE H E Double Hockey Sticks are you getting in to fist fights as a CCW Holder? Are you out playing "Mall Ninja' trying to stop a shoplifter?

    I DO NOT get in to fights, period. I use verbal and physical means to stay out of confrontation. Verbal may include telling the offending party that he is right and that I have my head so far up my rectum that I see daylight when I open my mouth.

    Physical means I "Beat Feet" and leave the scene. I avoid all confrontation and make it a point to be polite to everyone. That means no "one fingered" salutes when I'm driving to holding a door open for others to allowing others to precede me on the elevator.

    Just don't mistake my kindness for weakness.

    Biker
    First off, read my post more carfully. I said I have never been in a serious fight in my life. I have avoided it and plan on avoiding it. That is not going to change just because I carry. My point , I cant control what other people do or how they react. NO matter how hard I try, no matter how much crow I eat, no matter how fast I walk away, I cant control what other people do. There are alot of idiots out there that will punch you in the face just because you look at them, and will do it before you can "talk your way out of it"..
    You're assuming that I must be inpolite to people and am looking for a fist fight is the exact opposite of what I said in my post...

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Maybe I read the question wrong. If I did I apologise.

    If I have to use hand to hand in order to be able to gain distance and get away from my attacker, I will. My advancement is in a rearward direction so that I can "Beat Feet".

    I read the question as, if I get in to an argument with someone and it turns in to a "scuffle" sort of thing. As a CCW Holder you have NO Business getting in to a verbal altercation, much less a scuffle. You know one thing as a CCW Holder that the other party doesn't know, there is a deadly weapon present at the altercation.

    An old cop said it best years ago; "Every time I go to a Domestic there is at least one gun present, mine."

    Biker

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Maybe I read the question wrong. If I did I apologise.

    If I have to use hand to hand in order to be able to gain distance and get away from my attacker, I will. My advancement is in a rearward direction so that I can "Beat Feet".

    I read the question as, if I get in to an argument with someone and it turns in to a "scuffle" sort of thing. As a CCW Holder you have NO Business getting in to a verbal altercation, much less a scuffle. You know one thing as a CCW Holder that the other party doesn't know, there is a deadly weapon present at the altercation.

    An old cop said it best years ago; "Every time I go to a Domestic there is at least one gun present, mine."

    Biker
    BikerRN, I understand your response and i appreciate it. I believe in the "making distance " thing..But you saying I have no business getting inot a verbal altercation or a scuffle is "far fetched". Its not always 2 sided. All it takes is one idiot to make a choice to verbally attack me for no reason. Even if I say "ok you win and walk away" , does not mean hes not going to attack me anyway. I can do everything right and eat crow till I'm puking feathers, and the reality is, it just doesnt matter sometimes to some billy bad ass or some crack head that doesnt like my looks..I simply asked a "what if" question I already know how to avoid it ( if possible ), Ive done it for almost 50 years..

  5. #20
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    Ok, well I'm gonna throw my $0.02 into the conversation here. I have seen my fair share of physical confrontations and fistfights. Working as a bouncer at college for going on 4 years now, its bound to happen (although most bars don't let me throw a punch unless it's really neccessary, wrist locks, chokes holds, shin kicks, elbows, and other assorted strikes are preferred). I am not a huge guy, but I'm not tiny, currently I'm at about 5'11 and 230, with a 35 inch waist, and 46 inch chest.

    I don't carry at work, and for most of the situations I have to handle, I'm glad I don't. I have extremely limited training in weapon retention, and it would be an extra liability (now, if someone tried to rob us, I would want it, but I go hands on with someone at least every other night I work, and haven't heard of any of the big bars being robbed up here since I've been in school).

    As far as the arguement of someone smaller vs someone bigger, here is my take on it. Usually I would rather get into a fight with someone bigger than me, here is why: they do tend to be stronger, but they are slower, and tend to telegraph their moves (doesn't apply to UFC fighters, but does in general), they also tend to be untrained in fighting styles, relying on their sheer mass to intimidate the other person into submission, or they go for one big punch.

    Little guys on the other hand tend to be more athletic, move and strike a lot faster, and can still pack enough strength to do major damage. I consider them more of a threat mostly because of their speed, and most little guys who like to fight have experience fighting and some wrestiling or boxing or martial art in their background.

    Both groups tend to pose serious threats, but I put little guys just ahead of big guys. (Not that I ever understimate anyone, just the way i see things).

    Most fights can be avoided if one party pulls their head from a dark place and just walks away (be careful with this though, never turn your back on a possible threat, cheap shots can kill.) This even works with drunks. Their are exceptions to this, see my "Knockout" thread, but generally they can be avoided. De-escalate, appologize, do whatever you have to do to avoid a fight you don't have to be in. If you have a firearm on your person, this is especially true, de-escalate the situation and retreat, if neither is possible, be prepared to do whatever you have to do to protect your life.

    So that was more like $0.04, but I hope it gave y'all somethings to consider concerning this.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  6. #21
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    Let me also say this which may not have been clear in my original post..> i worry more about the legality issue here. Like a woman is going to get away with self defense easier than a man. A guy smaller than me , is the court going to say " how much of a threat was this guy to you"? If the guy was 100 lbs bigger than me , its obvious he was more of a threat..

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robere View Post
    Let me also say this which may not have been clear in my original post..> i worry more about the legality issue here. Like a woman is going to get away with self defense easier than a man. A guy smaller than me , is the court going to say " how much of a threat was this guy to you"? If the guy was 100 lbs bigger than me , its obvious he was more of a threat..
    You are right to be worried about the legality issue. I think that is why the majority here have said simply avoid fighting. It doesn't matter if your opponent is big or small, if you employ deadly force, you will most likely become the aggressor and an easy conviction in the eyes of a DA. Everything that was said and all of your actions leading up to the fight and your subsequent killing of the dude will be called into question, if not used against you as evidence. It probably won't work out in your favor.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    In 25+ years of carrying i have never been in a " fistfight " that was not job related . I can walk away , its my choice . Of course i dont normaly go to places where idiots even run thier mouths ( bars ) .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    In 25+ years of carrying i have never been in a " fistfight " that was not job related . I can walk away , its my choice . Of course i dont normaly go to places where idiots even run thier mouths ( bars ) .
    I rarely go into bars also. Maybe once a year and I'm not real comfortable when I do. Like Mardi-Gras, You couldnt pay me to go somewhere like that..

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Just one more reason why I love my Bianchi Carry Loc holster. Check them out, by far one of the best holsters I have ever used, and the best I have used for my Glock 23
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  11. #26
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    Actually - You're Not Too Far From Wrong

    "Add a little pepper spray and running shoes (I kid, I kid!) and you should have most of your bases covered."

    Really there are some simple easy to learn moves that will usually allow a person to quickly terminate an impending confrontation and extricate themselves from it and then...DO use those running shoes.

    Ending a fight before it escalates and then immediately getting elsewhere is the best way to survive it.

  12. #27
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    No doubt.
    Beretta 92FS

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Really there are some simple easy to learn moves that will usually allow a person to quickly terminate an impending confrontation and extricate themselves from it and then...DO use those running shoes.
    I think one of the reasons a prudent withdrawal doesn't get as much play around here as it really should is that we tend think about BGs armed with firearms (a good example of mirror image thinking). While you can't outrun a bullet, a lot of possible threats out there don't involve a handgun. Retreat is much more of an option in these cases, particularly if you can slow down an assailant with some sort of non-lethal force.

  14. #29
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    Unless you can't, walk away. Then you better be presented with the threat of serious bodily harm or death before you "pull" your gun. It will go much better for you if "the other guy" does not know you have it unless you need to use it.
    "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud..."
    -Jeff Cooper, "The Art of the Rifle"

  15. #30
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    Most situations can be backed out of. If that fails fight to win.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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