Fist fight while carrying

[kentuckycarry]

Very well said.. Like I said before. I cant control what other people do. Some people are going to fight you for NO reason, no matter what you do to avoid it...

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[kentuckycarry]

I wish that were completely true. I'm afraid that for many people it isn't always that easy. There are people that make it difficult, if not impossible to get away from and feel the need for conflict. Most often they may be in bad places but often times they can be anywhere at anytime.
I'll not live my life worried about the boogeyman. I'll avoid him when possible but if I meet him, I'll do everything I can to get home again. I don't avoid going to places that I can't be armed at just because I can't carry. Life is to be lived not just gotten through. I have yet to find a good way to conceal in swimming trunks while going down a water slide. I guess the point of all of my senseless babble is that carrying a weapon of any type is just a small part of being prepared. Part of being prepared is being prepared to be surprised because it does happen to even the most vigil of people. It's how you react to being surprised that can determine the outcome.
Those that have been fortunate enough to not have had to fight in their lifetime have probably displayed a lot of common sense with a little bit of luck as well. Well that's my nickle's worth of rambling, I'll sit back and be quiet now.

sorry, meant to quote this message..Very well said..

[briansmech]

kentucky law, from my basic understanding, affords you the use of deadly force in any physical confrontation, regardless of if you were somehow instigating, if you've tried to avoid and communicated your desire to avoid -

chapter 503.060 paragraph 3, subparagraph b

[briansmech]

btw, this is NOT the same in any other state.

south carolina, for example, forbids the use of deadly force if you've already entered into a verbal spar or in some other way instigated -

"you must be without fault in bringing on the difficulty."

[downrange]

this comes out of an older thread i posted. a LEO told my neighbor when asked if she shot an aggressor would she be at fault and he said only if he weighed less. like some of you guys said, cops don't always know the whole law and i don't agree with what he said either. good points were already made here about being smaller but able to be more of a threat through skills and training.

[TechGuy]

If you are willing to eat some 'crow'.
Back away, apologize, raise your hands (others will recongnize the 'French' sign). If the threat keeps advancing then it's an attempted assault... I'm willing to let a lot go, but never confuse 'extended' politeness for weakness! Stay armed...stay safe!
ret

+1, Acting like a gentle man is NOT being weak. A VERY bad assumption indeed.

[kylebce]

1. My Filipino martial arts instructor described a fight breaking out in front of a club and asked where the best defensive position would be. He grinned and said "down the street in the coffee shop reading the paper."

2. You don't know the guy you're about to fight. If he's trained, you won't see the knife untill you're cut and bleeding out- if you see it at all. Even if he's not trained there's probably a weapon. Size doesn't matter. smaller is actually more dangerous many times.

[kpw]

Size doesn't matter. smaller is actually more dangerous many times.

Yeah, got to agree a bit. The worst confrontation I've ever had was with a guy about 5'6" and maybe a buck fifty. I likened him to a pit bull that didn't know he should quit. If he had as much skill as heart, I mighta been in a whole lotta trouble. Made me do some re-adjusting to my way of thinking a long time back.

[Squawker]

It's been 10 years since my last fight, which occurred after I was sucker punched in a bar- I put the guy on the floor. I never used to worry about fights very much, since I felt that I was able to handle myself in most cases. Now days, that's no longer the case. I'm not only mid fifties, fat, and terribly out of shape, I now have chronic pain for severe lumbar arthritis and spinal stenosis. I'm technically handicapped, complete with the license plates. I have difficulty exercising due to the pain, which id the only way that I can lose weight. As far as fighting, my ability to defend myself is gone except for the most superficial means, at least hand to hand. If faced with the situation, I would try to walk away, and do whatever I could to diffuse the situation. But, given my disability, I am more likely to suffer injury than most people. If there was no other way, I would pull my gun before I allowed the other person to attack me. I had a close call several months ago in a fast food restaurant. I was working, performing medical care in peoples homes. A guy walked in, and stood behind me. After paying for my order, I was waiting for the counter person to get the food. The guy shoved passed me, and started running his mouth. I just stepped and continued to wait. After ordering, the guy started running his mouth as I got my order.
Then, he started telling me he was going to kick my A@$.
When it appeared that he was about to attack me, I pulled down the zipper on my fanny pack, and reached in and grabbed my XD 45. I did not pull it out, but I let the guy know as I headed toward the door that if he tried anything, he would be ready for the Vegas summers, as he would be ventilated with several 45 caliber holes. I walked out the door, keeping me eyes on him, the food in my left hand, my right still on the gun. I reached my car, and got in. After locking the door, and starting the car, I started salting my food, and ate it, sitting there. I had planned to eat in the car anyway, since I like to listen to the radio rather than eating in the restaurant. Fortunately, he never made any further effort toward coming after me. Once in the car, I would simply leave rather than taking any other course of action, and I was happy that I didn't have to pull the gun out. I have no idea why this guy was running his mouth, but I gues there are just A holes in the world.

[downrange]

i feel you Squawker as my dad was in the same situation, as well as being your age and WAY more disabled. a guy was mouthing off and threatening him for no real reason other than maybe being intoxicated. yes, he was in a bar. i feel it's fair to admit that. he doesn't know anything about guns or even consider a gun but anything more than what he's seen in movies. he came home shaking that day (this was years ago) and i was so angry! my dad is SO passive and he did the right thing and just left. i posted this... i guess... because yeah... there are A--holes out there and it 'stresses' me the most when they step up to the ones who are the least likely to fight back. preying on the weak... makes you the weak one.

[Shizzlemah]

One thing to keep in consideration is you may be in trouble if you throw a punch. In this state (Maine) if I get in a fistfight, he gets charged with assault, I get charged assault with deadly weapon. Even if it remains concealled... I have it, and that's enough to be held to a higher standard.

[Weeg]

Yeah, here in NC, if you are the instigator (while carrying a concealed firearm), you're in a hurt locker with the law...


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[RTC1911]

I think the thing I worry about most is getting into a fist fight with someone that is about my size or smaller while carrying. If they are bigger, they are more of a threat. Once you pull a gun, things change real quick and you're committed to using deadly force if neccessary. But I may hesitate pulling my gun if the guy is smaller or may be my size, but if I fight the guy, my weapon could be dislodged, fall out and used against me.
In Ky we do have the Castle Doctrine. If my gun did become dislodged , then my life is in jeapordy. But if I pull it on anyone no matter their size,would it be considered a viable cause for pulling a gun? I do feel I would be in fear for my life because I know one hit from someone could be lethal, another reason would be in fear of my gun becoming dislodged in the scuffle..

No disrespect intended, but your mindset - or at least the way it's verbalized and stated - sounds almost like a jail sentence waiting to happen.

You mention the biggest fear of getting into a fistfight with someone of equal or smaller size than you while you are carrying . . . in which case you "may hesitate pulling your gun"??? I would certainly hope so.

If the hostile belligerent is of equal or smaller size than you and not armed with a deadly weapon himself (you did describe a "fistfight"), where is your REASONABLE fear of grave, imminent harm arising from? I think any prosecuting DA would consider you drawing and presenting your weapon under those circumstances to be wholly unlawful use of disparate force and crucify you to the fullest extent of your state's penal law statutes.

You cannot justify the drawing and presentation (much less the use or discharge) of your defensive firearm merely based on the fear that if you engage in a fistfight or scuffle it may become dislodged and used against you. YOU have the responsibility to properly and adequately safeguard and protect your weapon at all times. If you CCW and haven't trained and become at least reasonably skilled in basic, essential, close-quarters hand-to-hand defensive combat (and particularly, weapon-retention techniques to defeat attempted gun-grabs if ever such an attempt occurs) then you might want to seriously rethink CCW in the 1st place.

I don't know if by "castle doctrine" (which generally refers to one's home) you're referring to an extension of that principle similar to what we have here in my state of FL, in which we have the right to "stand our ground" in the face of criminal attack without need of retreat before resorting to deadly force - but in any case - ANY implementation of deadly force must STILL be deemed legally "reasonable" and justifiable. In most instances, if you draw a firearm on an unarmed person, that's a crime of brandishing, menacing, or assault, as the least serious of criminal charges you're risking facing.

I think your implication of your belief that you would be "justified" in using a deadly weapon against an unarmed fist-fighter attacker merely because you believe that "one punch could be fatal" would not be lent much credence by a prosecuting DA or a jury of your peers. Same for the stated reason of your "fear" that your gun might be dislodged in a scuffle and used against you. Any aggressively hostile DA would take a statement like that, turn it around and imply that merely by virtue of putting on and carrying your concealed gun, by virtue of your own self-described fears you are also voluntarily assuming and undertaking the risk, inviting and welcoming the "fear" of having to pull and use your gun just to prevent its being taken away from you by an assailant. You'll likely be painted as a make-my-day, hopeful-closet-vigilante type.

You've even seemingly inferred that you might be more inclined to pull your weapon on an unarmed belligerant who's bigger than you just because he IS bigger than you and thus poses more of a threat to you than the threat level posed by someone of equal or lesser size than you.

Size doesn't matter. Mental preparedness, alertness, adequate training and above all, a very intimate knowledge of the laws governing the legal usage of deadly force in your state of Kentucky is all that's gonna matter and keep you out of harm's way - and out of jail - if SHTF.

I would urgently recommend that you obtain and familiarize yourself with the actual and entire state stautes that govern and regulate the decisions, actions and responsibilities you have elected to undertake.

I hope I haven't seemed offensive, because the intention is a good one. I'd hate to see one of the "good guys" take a bad fall for a bad decision implemented in the heat and stress of the moment. The only way to prepare for what we hope will never happen is to have all the options already well-known and firmly cemented in our minds BEFORE such decisions have to be made - because if ever they do, you'll likely only have split-seconds to analyze and implement. I hope you value your own freedom as much as you should, and safeguard that precious jewel adequately enough.

[FIREARMZ]

I agree with the above post except in that size does not matter. it is a disparity of force issue, but still the size difference must be gross and you will have to make a DA or jury feel you were in serious danger of death or severe bodily harm. Someone just running their pole sucker is not enough. Also if someone is known to you in advance that he or she is a professional boxer, martial artist or something very similar and other details point to the same fear you may be justified to use potentially deadly force.

[Tom G]

Theres always some A hole just looking to cause trouble. They have to bully and shoot their off to try and prove that they are a man. When you ignore them they get flustered and madder. What can you do but walk away when you are armed.