Scenario: Scarry One

This is a discussion on Scenario: Scarry One within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's a scenario my CCW instructor gave us, I have added one thing to the scenario that I will tell you about later and how ...

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Thread: Scenario: Scarry One

  1. #1
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    Scenario: Scarry One

    Here's a scenario my CCW instructor gave us, I have added one thing to the scenario that I will tell you about later and how everyone in class responded.

    You possess a CCW permit and a legally owned firearm. You are walking through the park one evening and and in a somewhat remote part of the park near a small playground you hear a little girl screaming. You alter course and slowly approach. There under a tree somewhat away from the playground, you see a little girl of maybe 4 or 5 years old wearing a dress, but laying flat on the ground with her dress up above her waist. The little girl is screaming and crying for the man to stop, the man hovering over her is red faced. One hand is holding the crotch of her underwear to the side and his hand is moving frantically on her exposed privates. He is yelling for her to calm down. As you approach, you can see that the man has a handgun stuck in the belt of his pants that has become exposed during this activity.

    What is your reaction?

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  3. #2
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    Bumper, dang that is a good one. I am trying to turn on my devil's advocate but nothing is coming to mind to not pull my weapon and tell the gent to cease and desist, but than my fear is he has the potential to grab the girl as a victim. WOW... Good one Bumper...

    I always have a cell, so first is to call 911 and give as exact a location as possible. Maybe ask for advice from the 911 Operator or ask to be put in touch with a Supervisor.

    ~A

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    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    I hope to never have to..but I\'d draw on him and command him to stop and move away and get flat on the ground til PD could arrive. I cant think of any legit reason for his actions...and he\'s not gonna get the drop on me from my vantage and having surprise and an already unholstered weapon on him. I would drop him if he went awry on me....

    Of course..Id never be in a park walking by myself at night...Id be at home with my 2 girls....ages 5 and 1 yr.

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    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention this would fall under a justified shoot per AZ's statutes....defense of a 3rd party, Rape and kid napping/molestation.

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    In the state of PA lethal force is justified to prevent or stop rape.

    The only warning of my approach he\'d get would be a 9mm bullet entering his head.

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    Even in the warmth and comfort of my easy chair, I cannot think of any possible medical emergency/reason that could justify this situation. So assuming it is not a 'trick' question, and is a plain and simple molestation, I think I'd give him the ClubSoda treatment as well. "Sorry Officer, I just told him to stop; but when he moved his hands, I thought he was reaching for a weapon, so that is why he has two bullet holes in every major orifice and vital organ, and all three of my 18 rnd magazines are empty..." ;)

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    Originally posted by AZG23
    Forgot to mention this would fall under a justified shoot per AZ\'s statutes....defense of a 3rd party, Rape and kid napping/molestation.
    Yes it would and was really the reason the instructor used this scenario.

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    My 3-year old niece does some very interesting things, beside screaming at the top of her lungs at embarassing moments. She's in her "ultra-sensitive" period where she can't even stand someone gently brushing her hair because "OW OW OW IT HURTS YOU'RE HURTING ME STOP HURTING ME!" My brother made the big mistake of babying her a little too much when she was younger, and so now she's a big baby with everything.

    As I buckled her into her car seat, she wailed about how it hurt and she couldn't breathe, which was totally untrue, because I hadn't even finished buckling her in and there was no tension on the belt yet. When she was buckled down and the plastic piece lowered around her, she said, "I.. I....can't breathe." And she faked passing out. I was startled, but I knew she wasn't squished. My brother looked over and said, "Oh, she just does that because she's mad." A third party would think we're abusing the poor kid. She stayed in her faux-unconsciousness until we arrived at our destination, where she magically resurrected with glee as I unbuckled her.

    She also has a known bladder problem. I'm not going into detail. She's still in pull-ups when all are her peers have been long out of them. She ends up in (real) serious physical pain, the poor kid. I imagine she's been through different medications including suppositories....and she hates medicine.

    With that said, and knowing my first impression would still be one of child molestation, I would try to find some form of cover while I confronted the man. I may be unholstered, but wouldn't point my gun at the man. I would demand he immediately stop and explain his actions. I would call for help on my cell phone. Anyone who says it's a medical emergency and does not want me to call for professional help would be immediately under suspicion. If it is an emergency and this man is her father or a loved one, he would most likely ask for my assistance also. What happens from there will be determined by the man's actions.

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    Member Array scbair's Avatar
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    Viewing what was described in the scenario, I'd unholster and try to sneak as close as possible (sorta quick-like). As soon as I was ready, or the adult spotted me, I'd command him to STOP, and aim directly at him. I think any reasonable person would fear for the child's safety, at that point. His alternatives would be:
    A) STOP (I'd have to figure out how to proceed, at that point);
    B) Rise, turn & run (I'd stay with the child & summon law enforcement and ambulance, ASAP);
    C) Do anything else (I'd fire in defense of the child and me).

    My logic? Even if there is some unimaginable (by me) legitimate reason for the adult's actions, they are so bizarre as to warrant immediate intervention (grown-ups can darned well fend for themselves, but a child sure can't). The adult should recognize that his actions have precipitated my challenge, and react accordingly (that is, make no move I might construe as threatening further, either the child or me).

    Nightmare scenario, for sure.

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    First reaction would be shock. In the interviening 1.5 seconds a 911 call and then the slow approach from his blind side weapon drawn, keeping the 21'rule in mind in a loud and authorative voice (the one that makes the door bell resonate when I use it at home) I would order him to cease and desist place his hands behind his head and lay face down on the ground. If he reaches for the gun then, and only then deadly force would be used. Having some medical back ground I can concieve of absolutly no medical reason he would be doing this other than the actions of a prevert petofile.

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    Member Array armoredman's Avatar
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    I would have to add what this COULD be. Keep in mind I work in a prison full of child molesters and rapists, so i am fully aware of what this might be, but having had this happen to me once, it's possibly something else - ants. I was attacked by black ants when I was 7, and they went right for the crotch. Took the janitor at the school a while to get the &*^@%!$ off me.
    A loud, "What the H*LL are you doing!" is usually enough to frighten off chomos - they are 99% cowardly scum who target children due to their inability to fight back.
    Have your weapon ready, but possibly out of his vision, or at low ready, because yes, under AZ law you have the right to use deadly force to prevent molestation of a child, or rape, or sexual misconduct with a minor, among others, but I'd hate to kill her dad while he's trying to pull ants off her crotch.
    On the face of it, it looks very bad, but a bullet cannot ever be called back. Don't split second decisions bite?
    So, what was the instructors answer?

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    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    You know Armoredman...I was thinking this over this morning as I read others replies and this same thought popped into my head....ANTS. Still...this is why the commands to stop and move away would be the best bet vs. firing at him. This gives you time to assess further and get PD enroute if you havent already.

    I played this over and over in my head before posting last night and couldnt come up with anything close to a legit reason....its amazing how long it took to come up with a good reason...Id still handle it the same way as I previously posted...but it sure makes you think just how easily you can get yourself into trouble because you are reading a situation wrong. Good heads up....use the weapon between your ears before the one in your holster.

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    Membership Revoked Array clubsoda22's Avatar
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    If it were ants, why would you lay the kid on the ground...where the ants are.

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    Member Array AZG23's Avatar
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    Doesnt necessarily mean ts right where they were....he could have moved the child 25 ft away...it said near a small playground.

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    Armoredman hit it on the head. The little girl was playing in the playground and had the misfortune of sitting down in a fire ant bed. Those of you that shot, just killed her grandpa. His weapon was simply him exercising his privelege of concealed carry.

    When the instructor gave us this scenario, the weapon in his waistband was not a part of it. I added it only because it is justifiable under the laws here to use deadly force to stop a sexual assault or molestation. We had just been told that fact so we were "prepped" ahead of time (read set up :) ) for our reaction. I thought the weapon might make you feel the same type of justification.

    All eight people in class said they would shoot the guy in the head, including myself. To say it was an eye opener when he expplained what was really going on is an understatement. It drove home the point that there very well may be a valid explanation to this event. At the time (we were only given a few seconds) I could think of nothing that would explain the guy's actions.

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