Potential Mugging in Restaurant Parking Lot.

[ron8903]

Tom G
From what I hear your area is getting pretty bad.
You might need to start carrying two .357's.

Stay safe.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[SammyIamToday]

This scenario reminds me of the adage, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail."

Not to rain on your parade, but technically you could be guilty of "Assault With A Deadly Weapon". Did the "gentleman display means, motive or opportunity, to commit a felony that would place you in fear of your life?

Asking for money is NOT a felony and isn't illegal in most parts of the world. Therefore I would suggest that you learn some other "tools" to place in your tool box. Command Voice, Hand To Hand Combat, Pepper Spray and Knife Fighting should all be in your tool box.

By the way, the tools I use most often are awareness, verbal and body position. Live and learn. I'm not a Lawyer, nor do I work for one, just giving you another side to your scenario. Take care and stay safe. By the way, when I'm on the Ducati I wear a full face helmet, sure saves the head when someone is stupid enough to punch you.

Biker RN

The police didn't seem to think I was commiting assault with a deadly weapon. The guy didn't ask for money from 10 ft away. He said he was going to ask for money after he saw that I had a gun pointed at him. Then he ran away. He made no incoherent sentences until that point. Up until then he was like hey man hey hey hey as he basically ran up on me.

I don't feel wrong at all for pulling the gun on him because if he had a knife he could have easily stabbed me and for all I know he had one. You don't run up on another man's personal space in a dark parking lot like that.

I'm more looking for tips on things I could have done to make it so he couldn't have stabbed me (such as putting my bike between him and me, which I didn't think about until it was too late) than whether or not I should have drawn my weapon. I'm 100% convinced that drawing in my situation was warranted.

[downrange]

The police didn't seem to think I was committing assault with a deadly weapon. The guy didn't ask for money from 10 ft away. He said he was going to ask for money after he saw that I had a gun pointed at him. Then he ran away. He made no incoherent sentences until that point. Up until then he was like hey man hey hey hey as he basically ran up on me.

that's what i thought you said so yeah, i think you were ok and the police looks like they saw it that way too. especially since it looks like the other guy didn't report anything. the only thing i can say is what i did even before i started carrying. tell them loud and stern to STOP when they're still a decent distance away. your more justified in drawing if he doesn't listen to you, increasing a threatening situation.

[havegunjoe]

You did good. Speed of the panhandler would put anyone at a disadvantage. If possible dismount opposite side of attacher. I don't know that I would have drawn the gun but I would have had it in my hand ready to pull. Drawing should be the absolute last consideration, but that's a judgment call and it's hard to say as I was not there. More verbal commands to halt if possible before he gets into your space.

[BikerRN]

The police didn't seem to think I was commiting assault with a deadly weapon. The guy didn't ask for money from 10 ft away. He said he was going to ask for money after he saw that I had a gun pointed at him. Then he ran away. He made no incoherent sentences until that point. Up until then he was like hey man hey hey hey as he basically ran up on me.

I don't feel wrong at all for pulling the gun on him because if he had a knife he could have easily stabbed me and for all I know he had one. You don't run up on another man's personal space in a dark parking lot like that.

I'm more looking for tips on things I could have done to make it so he couldn't have stabbed me (such as putting my bike between him and me, which I didn't think about until it was too late) than whether or not I should have drawn my weapon. I'm 100% convinced that drawing in my situation was warranted.

As far as "tips" look at what I wrote. I said to put more tools in your tool box.

Verbal is tool #1 IMO followed closely by Body Position. Pepper Spray and Hand to Hand have their place too. Maybe Body Position is tool #1, I don't know, they are so closely related.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just looking at this from an impartial set of eyes and playing "devil's Advocate, so to speak. If we don't do that for each other we are not going to learn, nor consider other options. You are lucky that the subject in question didn't call 911 himself and most non-CCW people would most likely see it as a "Harmless Begger" situation, eventhough we know different.

Don't plan on getting a jury of your peers if you have to go to court either. I'm willing to bet that no jury member in a trial of this sort will be a gun owner.

If it was a true jury of peers then a Burglar would have 12 Jury Members that are all Burglars.

Biker

[Blackeagle]

I'm willing to bet that no jury member in a trial of this sort will be a gun owner.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet that a jury would almost certainly include a gun owner, probably multiple gun owners. There are around 100 million of us in the U.S. after all. However, just because someone owns a gun does not mean they think seriously about self defense. Some gun owners are still .

[SammyIamToday]

As far as "tips" look at what I wrote. I said to put more tools in your tool box.

Verbal is tool #1 IMO followed closely by Body Position. Pepper Spray and Hand to Hand have their place too. Maybe Body Position is tool #1, I don't know, they are so closely related.

Oh, I agree with using verbal and so forth, but I really feel like there wasn't time in my situation. Maybe I'm just being defensive and I will do more analysis of what happened. I won't ever consider pepper spray. Some will, I will not.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just looking at this from an impartial set of eyes and playing "devil's Advocate, so to speak. If we don't do that for each other we are not going to learn, nor consider other options. You are lucky that the subject in question didn't call 911 himself and most non-CCW people would most likely see it as a "Harmless Begger" situation, eventhough we know different.

No offense was taken, was just trying to clear up my situation.

Don't plan on getting a jury of your peers if you have to go to court either. I'm willing to bet that no jury member in a trial of this sort will be a gun owner.

If it was a true jury of peers then a Burglar would have 12 Jury Members that are all Burglars.

Biker

Eh, I won't bank on it, but I imagine in KY I'll do okay with a jury.

[msg usa]

In my old and humble opinion, based on what I read, you did good. Nobody got injured, nobody got dead. Its a good day when that happens! Stay Safe.

[Leadslinger]

I'm glad everything turned out ok for you.
It seemed that it happened quickly and you reacted according to what you thought was best. Looking at the incident from the outside, I would say... I probably wouldn't have drew my gun. Hand in pocket, with the gun ready (definately) yes. You could have backed away while giving him verbal (commands) or warnings. If your gun is in a jacket pocket, you could have kept in there and fired through the fabric if necessary ( don't think I'd want to do that, unless absolutely necessary) . Move away from the threat when you can, and use strong (Authoritive) voiced verbals. If alot of BGs see your not scared and are in control of the situation, they will back off.

Stay Safe out there.

[hayley]

I lived in downtown Lexington for years. Walking at night, I routinely had (and still sometimes, as I work downtown and usually late) similar encounters where someone approaches me for a handout. The come-on varies quite a lot and can be very creative. I guess I'm a soft-touch (and foolish!) 'cause I often give a little spare change. But since I got a carry permit, I always have a grip on either my Kel Tec or j-frame with my other hand.

[COWBOYF550]

Glad to hear that everything turned out OK for you. There's no way of telling what could have happened if you wouldn't have pulled your gun. I wasn't in your situation and I've never been in a situation like that so considering how quickly everything happened I think you did a good job as far as you taking the upper hand in this situation. Who's to say that he didn't have a knife or worse an infected needle or something. Like someone else previously mentioned, "some people won't take no for an answer." IMHO the only thing I might have done differently would be to carry a big caliber. Possibly a J-frame 357 / .38+P I know you mentioned that you can't carry anything bigger at work so I understand. The way I see it everything happened so quickly and you did the best you could to survive the situation and you're here to tell us the story.

Stay safe!

[GoodSamaritan]

Sammy, I am glad to hear everything worked out. This is hitting a little close to home.

My only tip, is one I doubt the bikers on this board will appreciate, but here goes.
Get yourself a big ugly vehicle, and drive it instead of the bike.
#1 This gives you a nice big hunk of metal to put between you and a bg.
#2 The uglier it is the less tempting a target you will make.
#3 The uglier it is, the less concern you will have for the paintjob if you have to ram your way out of a bad situation.

Now you guys know why I drive a wagon everyone has dubbed the hillbilly suv

[BikerRN]

Oh, I agree with using verbal and so forth, but I really feel like there wasn't time in my situation. Maybe I'm just being defensive and I will do more analysis of what happened. I won't ever consider pepper spray. Some will, I will not.



No offense was taken, was just trying to clear up my situation.



Eh, I won't bank on it, but I imagine in KY I'll do okay with a jury.

As far as doing okay with a jury, I too live in a "gun friendly" state, but stuff can and does happen.

We would all consider AZ pretty gun friendly I think. Guess what, the Fish Trial is in AZ; Northern AZ to be exact. Northern AZ is suppossedly VERY VERY gun friendly.

Stay safe and take care.

Biker

[sheckigreen]

Not to rain on your parade, but technically you could be guilty of "Assault With A Deadly Weapon". Did the "gentleman display means, motive or opportunity, to commit a felony that would place you in fear of your life?

Asking for money is NOT a felony and isn't illegal in most parts of the world. Therefore I would suggest that you learn some other "tools" to place in your tool box. Command Voice, Hand To Hand Combat, Pepper Spray and Knife Fighting should all be in your tool box.

Hate to rain on yours, but a knife is a deadly weapon. Also, just because this person said he was "only going to ask for money", i guess that means he's a very trustworthy person and we should believe thats all he wanted? I guess all criminals who plead innocent in court should be considered innocent.

[Ping Ping]

*Deep Sigh...

SammyIamToday,

Remember this, my friend: Success is total. Failure is final.

You were totally successful in your encounter. Why? Because you are here to talk about it. Did you make mistakes? Yes. But, you did not fail. You are one of the lucky ones who will have the opportunity to learn and grow from your mistakes.

I've had the fortune/misfortune of knowing many who have been in deadly force situations. Every single one who was in such a situation and lived to talk about it, made mistakes! Every single one who didnt make a mistake, never lived to talk about it.

There is no perfect scenario. There is no perfect reaction to any scenario. Survival is the only measure of success. We train to prepare, not to perfect.