Renter gone crazy

Renter gone crazy

This is a discussion on Renter gone crazy within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Defensive Carry Post Crazy Renter This happened a few months ago so I've had some time to process what happened: I live out in the ...

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  1. #1
    New Member Array EuDvine's Avatar
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    Renter gone crazy

    Defensive Carry Post

    Crazy Renter

    This happened a few months ago so I've had some time to process what happened:
    I live out in the country with my parents and my older brother. We rent out a little farmhouse by the road at the beginning of our 1/4 mile long driveway that's out of sight from our new house.

    This happened late January 2015 around 5:00 PM. I was out back with my dog (livestock guardian, sees no human as a threat) and I heard a faint cry up by one of our front doors. My dog ran up towards the sound and I heard the cry again. It was desperate sounding and my first thought was that maybe my mom had fallen. I ran after the dog and heard the person in distress saying "help!". As I turned the corner around the house I saw it was our renter's wife. Her face and shirt were bloody and she just had socks on her feet. My mom had just let her in the door and I followed in behind her and the woman told us to "Lock the doors, my husband has lost his mind! He drank a whole bottle of whiskey, he's got and ax and he's coming to kill me! I had to leave our daughter with him (3 years old). I had to run!".

    It was then my heart started racing and I took a deep breath and ran downstairs, told my Dad to lock the doors and we proceeded to lock, first, all 10 doors that are accessible to ground level first (yeah we have a mansion, worst possible structure to defend unless you have 20 armed household members). Mom called 911 and tended to the neighbors wounds. Not sure what dad was doing, I hoped he was getting a gun. I keep a Sig P938 on me 24/7 and I asked by brother if he was armed and he nodded. I stood out on a deck that faces down the driveway and has visual on the hillside above the house. I stayed there real quiet for a few minutes listening for sound in woods or footsteps on gravel. I watched my dog who was sitting out on the driveway. He would sense first if someone was approaching the house.

    After a few minutes my dog went on alert and ran down the driveway out of sight. My adrenaline started going haywire and asked God for help and prayed that He wouldn't make me have to shoot someone. I made the decision to only shoot if 1) the man entered the house or 2) had a weapon on the little girl. My dog returned without anyone else.

    We all waited for about 15 minutes after the 911 call. Judging by previous police response times, we figured it'd take them 20-30 minutes to get here, and with the 3 year old girl still with her berserk daddy, we agreed to leave dad to watch the driveway from the house, and my brother and I to go over the hill and post on a dam that overlooks the farmhouse about 100 yards away. My brother took his Ruger LCP .380 and a scoped Remington 700 in .243, and I took my Sig 9mm and VZ-58 in 7.62x39 with a 30 round mag and binoculars.

    Normally I would've opted to stay at the house but the little girl's life was seriously threatened knowing the guy was drunk out of his mind, tried to ax his wife to death, and also owns firearms. My brother and I's plan was to watch the house from a distance and intervene if necessary to save the little girl, and wait for the police to roll up whilst communicating via text with dad and mom.

    Nothing was going on in the yard and the lights in the farmhouse were out. We laid there for 3 or 4 minutes seeing no activity down there, and then five or six police arrived at 19 minutes after the initial call. Not bad for being way out in the boonies. We watched as they surrounded the house, rescued the girl, and cuffed the dude without much struggle. He was high as a kite on THC with an average sized bottle of 100 proof in is system.

    All ended as best as it could've, but there are multiple scenarios that could've played out very badly. 1) The first that comes to mind is if the man had been right behind the woman as she approached the door to the house; where I was positioned coming around the corner of the house at that moment, I would've been the only person to oppose him. I'm not sure if I could take in enough clues to what was happening quickly enough to draw and fire. I would've just seen my neighbor that I've spent time with, and his wife with a bloody face. How could I judge that quickly? What if he had gotten into the house? What if had had a gun at that moment?

    2) If he had been sneaky and gotten into out house after my brother and I left for the hill. I later learned that my dad got in his truck and drove down the driveway a bit to oppose the renter if he was walking up the drive. That definitely left the house vulnerable and could've ended badly.

    Another element that we know to be true now is that the renter, at some point, threatened the little girl with a gun after the wife made a break for our house. The little girl said some things about that during one of her child psychology sessions.
    So if the man had held his daughter at gunpoint demanding we release his wife to him or something, I wouldn't know what else to do other than a well placed 7.62 to his skull.

    One thing I look back on and wish I would've done is grab my flashlight before hitting the woods. It got dark on us after the cops made the arrest, so if the guy had ditched the house and was hiding in the woods or around the barns then potentially we wouldn't be able to illuminate him, or signal the cops that we were out there too.
    Another thing that I'm not so sure was smart was leaving the house. May it have been more important to stick it out in the house and keep it secured with the woman safe, or was it good that we went after the little girl?

    I'd like to hear some constructive criticism from all you fellow brothers in arms about anything that could've been done smarter in this situation, what YOU would've done, and what my family and I should practice for a future home invasion by a drunk ax murderer tripping on THC. Or maybe next time a whole army of drunk ax murderers tripping on THC.
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  2. #2
    Member Array TheMadScientist's Avatar
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    I would have stayed inside the house. It would not be a smart idea to look for the bg. Your best defense when a bg is outside would be stay indoors, armed and let the police deal with it. This cannot be stressed enough. Now if he tried to gain entry, you should know what to do.

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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Next time try a simple Howdy I'm new here.........
    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.
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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    Greetings from Richmond/ Rosenberg, TX

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    "Liberal arguments against guns tend to presume the worst: that a yearning for gun ownership must in some way be rooted in the desire to hurt. But gun culture at its best is rooted in a desire to protect, and especially to protect the people we love"
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadScientist View Post
    I would have stayed inside the house. It would not be a smart idea to look for the bg. Your best defense when a bg is outside would be stay indoors, armed and let the police deal with it. This cannot be stressed enough. Now if he tried to gain entry, you should know what to do.
    Yeah, you don't know if that guy is capable of picking you off from a couple hundred yards. In the house, doors locked, windows covered. And the cops on the phone.
    I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I'm saying remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

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    Member Array Mike25's Avatar
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    Welcome from IL
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    Don't go looking for trouble. Trouble is already looking for you.
    I find supremely ironic that God in his wisdom and grace has given man freedom of choice bounded by 10 simple rules. Man in his finite wisdom has created millions of rules to limit freedom of choice and the personal responsibility of his fellow man.

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    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    I live way out too! I would have picked a place where I could see both places if possible. I think you did well to cover all. In the city Hunkering down makes more sense because of the less space between you and the neighbors. But out in the boonies You need to control that space.

    I had a friend who found himself in that same position. A neighbors wife showed up bloody, so they let her and the kids in. The husband showed up and they chased him off with a shotgun. The husband went around to the three possible exits and set them on fire! He was waiting across the pasture for them to escape when the cops showed up.

    You never know what they will do! DR

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array CalCarry's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum, maybe consider installing a multi channel camera/dvr system. Maybe point a few at the entrance and near the rental house. The new systems are internet capable and you can view all your cameras remotely on your smartphones when you're not home. Cameras won't stop anything, but they can be a deterrent and provide evidence after the fact.

    Also come up with a plan with the rest of the family so if anything happens again everybody has an assigned task and or area to cover. Real glad the girl was ok, that's a tough call whether to help/hinder in this situation.

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    Member Array luckydog's Avatar
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    If he would have killed that little girl while 3 grown armed men sit around 20 minutes and waited for the cops, that would be hard thing to deal with. It worked out for the best but there is no way I could have just sat around worrying about myself when the little girl could have been being axed to death.
    Be polite, be professional but have a plan to kill everyone that you meet. General James "Mad Dog" Mattis USMC

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    Member Array Warsaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NONAME762 View Post
    Next time try a simple Howdy I'm new here.........
    I'm not smart enough to understand what that was supposed to mean. Seems strange...
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    Senior Member Array glockstar's Avatar
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    This is the first time I've heard of THC tripping Jim Bean drinkin axe murderers; is this a west coast thing?
    PJR202, Jaggyd33, DingBat and 1 others like this.

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    Member Array luckydog's Avatar
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    I keep thinking about this story and I have to ask the OP a couple of questions. When you guys were planning on what action to take, did rescuing the 3 year old come up? Last question. If things would have ended differently and he would have killed the girl while you guys just waited, how would you have felt?

    I'm not trying to start any trouble, I just want to know what you guys were thinking and why you didn't go after the girl.
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    Be polite, be professional but have a plan to kill everyone that you meet. General James "Mad Dog" Mattis USMC

    A .380 in your pocket is better than a 45 in your truck.

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    VIP Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    That's a doozy of a first post. I think you made reasonable decisions throughout. It would be hard to say there were decisions you could have clearly made better in the heat of the moment. What was your process for renting? Did you do background checks on your renters at all? Obviously it is not a perfect system, but doing some investigations into your prospective tenants before you let them sign a lease is something that can pay off in spades.
    Eric357 and gatorbait51 like this.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Array PJR202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockstar View Post
    This is the first time I've heard of THC tripping Jim Bean drinkin axe murderers; is this a west coast thing?
    Yeah and what exactly is tripping on THC? Isn't that just pot? I would have expected him to eat cheetos and fall asleep.

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