Do women have an advantage? - Page 2

Do women have an advantage?

This is a discussion on Do women have an advantage? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO Interesting thread. I think that could be an advantage in some situations, but certainly not all. Imagining myself in reverse situations ...

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Thread: Do women have an advantage?

  1. #16
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    Let Me Add A Point Here...

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Interesting thread. I think that could be an advantage in some situations, but certainly not all. Imagining myself in reverse situations working as an LEO or other protective roles with clients, I am more prone to pay attention to males in the room as potential threats.

    If a woman is smart enough to play up this fact of life, it really can be a big advantage. The tough part is dealing with all the disadvantages a woman has. I would think its much tougher to conceal and stay fashionable. However, every woman that I have trained and trained with that really wanted to learn become far more skilled than most of the guys. The problem is that most women's minds just are not wired that way.
    The guys in the mall you mentioned makes me think of other disadvantage... lets say they are just girl watching. They are studying you, making it more likely they will notice a CCW on you. Nobody gives a 250# balding guy a second look, he can probably open carry and not many would notice... but a pretty girl walks though a crowd, most guys are looking, and women do too.
    Now lets say they do have preditory intentions... if they noticed a CCW, would it be an advantage or disadvantage?

    I guess my point is that a woman can to play up certain misconceptions and stereo types to her advantage, as long as they understand the disadvantages that go along with it too.
    Two individuals, one male, one female, both trained in correct CCW...
    the woman would have a DEFINITE advantage in determining...a 'disparity of force' issue'...

    My $.02...

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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Why do you think gang members have their girl friends carry the guns. The girl friend is not considered as much of a threat as the male and this works in her favor. The rival gang member will more likely be watching the male.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    Why do you think gang members have their girl friends carry the guns. The girl friend is not considered as much of a threat as the male and this works in her favor. The rival gang member will more likely be watching the male.
    Good point. They also do this with the younger members too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Gunnutty's Avatar
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    When going thru the academy years ago I got killed (combat exercise) because I did not pay enough attention to the female perp.
    Several of the guys did. Interestingly enough a couple of the women trainees did as well. Women do have an advantage if they'll use it.
    We will be much better off when we learn to deal with things as they really are, instead of how we wish them to be!

  5. #20
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    lima - in addition to the deflect from the line of attack, learn some pain/incapacitation points. If a large man is pushing you to the ground, and you try to get away, you most likely lose. If he is pulling you close and you close and get close to him whilst putting both thumbs in each eye, he is going to re-evaluate his attack. It does not take much strength to scoop out the jelly of the eyeball or punch the throat or others.

    Again, if you protect your perimeter, you may never need those skills.

  6. #21
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    Yes , from a perception point of view. My girlfriend is about 115 lb, skinny and looks like an easy target. We occasionally play around wrestling ect, and she always suprises me with how much strength she has. (farm girl) .
    As said women may be targeted more, too. I am glad to see more women are arming themselves and taking self defense seriously. Everyone should know how to protect themselves.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
    lima - in addition to the deflect from the line of attack, learn some pain/incapacitation points. If a large man is pushing you to the ground, and you try to get away, you most likely lose. If he is pulling you close and you close and get close to him whilst putting both thumbs in each eye, he is going to re-evaluate his attack. It does not take much strength to scoop out the jelly of the eyeball or punch the throat or others.

    Again, if you protect your perimeter, you may never need those skills.
    LOL... Eye gouges and pressure points. Boy have I gotten the lesson on those.

    It is a fact of nature that any creature will protect it's eyes above all else.
    Birds of prey, to ensure their meal is dead, will peck at the eyes, because even creatures that are playing dead to attract prey of their own will flinch or try to protect themselves if poked in the eye.
    In the military, they teach that if you suspect someone is faining death, poke him in the eye with the muzzle of your rifle.

    The eyes are a perfect target in ruthless hand-to-hand. All bets are off when a thumb is in your eye, for sure. Other than that there are plenty of points on the neck, shoulder, hands, and so on that are great pressure points.


  8. #23
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    That is all good, but grappling and pressure points are only used as last resort BG is all over you options. You must remain in contact with the BG for them to be effective. You really don't want to go hands on with a BG who is likely stronger and more experienced in fighting than yourself. If you are already ground fighting... all bets are off, do what you got to do. Nose, eyes and ears are all great targets, esp. if you carry a knife. The old standby "grab twist and pull" is effective too. You do not want to go to the ground with a more powerful BG! Avoid that at all costs.
    That is why I suggested the redirect/deflect techniques. They take no power, no energy and it will buy you enough time to gain some distance and draw and shoot. The smallest of people can be effective against the largest of people.

    To many women’s self defense classes are based on apprehension techniques instead of "hit and run". Pressure points only work when you have a hold on the BG... You don’t want to have a hold; you want to be out of his reach.
    The biggest piece of advice I can give on a message board is to build your hand strength, if you have a good strong grip you can win just about any encounter. If you want it, I’ll PM you a way to do that fast and cheap. I can go on and on about this stuff, but I wont for now.
    Last edited by SIXTO; March 13th, 2007 at 12:35 PM.
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  9. #24
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    You really don't want to go hands on with a BG who is likely stronger and more experienced in fighting than yourself. If you are already ground fighting... all bets are off, do what you got to do.
    I can attest to that. The ground, bed, floor,or in my case, on the seat of the car, is the toughest place to get out of, and when you have someone hitting you in the face, forget about it!

  10. #25
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Oh certainly, that is why there is nothing better than being well trained and prepared.

    My husband, a former Marine, has taken a lot of time and effort to teach me some basic hand-to-hand things, but warns me all the time that if a BG gets within arms range of me (2 feet or less) I'm probably done for.
    Howdy!

    You had better make that 20 feet. Do some research on a guy by the name of Dennis Tueller. The "Tueller Drill" is named for him. He was able to prove that an average person can cover 20 feet and inflict a fatal knife wound on someone with a holstered handgun BEFORE they could draw and fire.
    In your case, being female is a significant disadvantage in a close quarters hand to hand situation because of the disparity in size of the average female and average male. I don't care how much training a person has, a really well planted punch on a "pressure point" is pretty well gonna be lights out. Since your opponent will probably outweigh you nearly 2 to 1, you are in significant danger in a h2h situation - all a guy has to do is grab your hair and bounce your head off of a light pole and you're either dead or dying.
    I too despise the "little lady" attitude that some of these knuckle draggers possess. The key to your survival on the street is the same as any man's - situational awareness, mindset and skill with a firearm. Training, Training, Training is the key - but do it with a nationally recognized trainer. There are a lot of incompetent instructors out there. Look for a guy like John Farnam,Vicki Farnam, Randy Caine, Louie Auerbach, Chuck Taylor, Dave Blinder - guys with a track record. A woman trained by one (or more) of these guys is every bit as deadly as a man - SO LONG as you don't let the BG get his hands on you first. THAT may well result in "game over" before you ever fire a shot.
    So, to answer your origional question, you may have an element of surprise that will work in your favor, However, you'll quickly lose any advantage if you let the BG get close enough to put his hands on you. Good luck!

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    All i have to say on the subject is that in another life a sharp looking, scantily clad little latina with big brown eyes and a smile that lit the room would have gutted me with a broken beer bottle in a local cantina had it not been for the vest . My situational awareness was lacking and i had dismissed her as a threat while attempting to resolve a conflict i was called to . A mistake i wont make again .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

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  12. #27
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    "Not long ago, while at the range and getting ready to leave, both my husband and I holstered our carry guns while finished cleaning up and the guy beside me who had recently arrived said, "Oh, you shouldn't do that, little lady, you're liable to shoot yourself." Yet he said nothing to my husband.. "

    First thing I would have done is said to him, "well little man don't you worry about it because she can probably out shoot an idiot like you". Most women can as I find their accuracy tends to be very good. Sorry but dumb statments like this tend to burn me up.


    Now as to your question I think it is a double edged sword. Yes, I think a woman would be considered less likely to pull iron and start shooting, but I also think it makes them more of a target. All the more reason more women should learn how to shoot and carry a gun if you ask me.
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  13. #28
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    With everything that I have posted on this topic so far, a small woman can be very effective... they just need to exploit their strengths, and at least know their weakness, same as a man does.

    I know a very tough woman who is a SWAT officer. She is about 115# soaking wet and wicked with a pistol. I would not want to go H2H with her. I have in training before, I am not ashamed to admit she was all over me, and ate my lunch when she was done. I am 5'11 and 195, and have been trained in such things by very well known military schools, and same in the LEO arena. I teach some of them too. My point is, size and strength is only part of the puzzle, knowledge and a survival mindset is most important.
    Because of her mindset and knowledge, I would take her to any call with me, anyday. I would love to have her teach a class just for the ladies, but she is to shy. No one ever takes her serious, because she is so small and pretty to boot. Then they go to the rock pile...
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    LOL six its just amazing how the " mats " square away a bunch of folks's attitudes when it comes to small and cute isnt it . My wife is that way small , cute , and not only out shoot you , but hold you down and cut off crap you dont want to loose . She consistantly was the best shot on the dept after i left lol .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    That is all good, but grappling and pressure points are only used as last resort BG is all over you options. You must remain in contact with the BG for them to be effective. You really don't want to go hands on with a BG who is likely stronger and more experienced in fighting than yourself. If you are already ground fighting... all bets are off, do what you got to do. Nose, eyes and ears are all great targets, esp. if you carry a knife. The old standby "grab twist and pull" is effective too. You do not want to go to the ground with a more powerful BG! Avoid that at all costs.
    That is why I suggested the redirect/deflect techniques. They take no power, no energy and it will buy you enough time to gain some distance and draw and shoot. The smallest of people can be effective against the largest of people.
    I was not advocating going hand on hand. It was in response to her significant other taking her down. If she is in contact and cannot escape (deflect did not work), then I wanted her to be aware of her options.

    I agree that deflect/create distance is good, but if she has no other choice, then go for the soft spots.

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