Do women have an advantage?
This is a discussion on Do women have an advantage? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by limatunes
II mean really.. do I look intimidating?
March 15th, 2007 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by limatunes
March 15th, 2007 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by denverd0n
This is funny. No one wins when we think that we know better. You mention that you "think" that I misunderstood. You also mention that the comment from the original poster described a man who "apparently thinks that guns are man toys" and "thinks that little ladies aren't capable of learning" or "being safe with guns"
No one said that this man who confronted her "thought" that, you have no clue what that man thought or how he felt, you can only project what you imagine he thought based on what you thought. (now THAT sort of thinking and assumption really is plain stupid)
Why do I take this personally? Because, I probably would say EXACTLY the same thing to any woman or young man that I didn't recognize at my range. I think that it's common courtesy and common respect. When we think that we are above others telling us what's on their mind, because we have typecast them, then we're in trouble and need to live in a bubble.
No one knows, other than that man, what he meant. You and I weren't there. Even the woman who was there and spoken to, only can imagine what the man "thought".
Women and men are different. Physically, emotionally and socially.
"Average" woman has less bulk, physical strength, and experience at fighting than the "average" man.
Women can be trained to overcome physical adversity. Men can be trained to overcome physical adversity. Men usually avail themselves of this type of training more often than women. BOTH can overcome and BOTH can excel. Put them on a team, and you have the best of both worlds, best combination.
I, personally, can handle MORE of a threat from those intent to harm my wife and I, because I am physically more capable. Only thing is, I tend to forgive, forget and move on faster than she does. My wife has WAY MORE heart than I do, she has no known fears and won't quit as fast as I do in a fight. I would probably "look for a way out" of the altercation, where she would still be looking to disable someone. LOL
Bottom line is, "everyone is tough while online and behind a keyboard" and has all the answers, but when it's you who's attacked, all that will keep you on your feet is your training and "learned" common sense. (I say "learned" because not too many of us have common sense.. we learn from our mistakes. LOL)
As as illustration, I saw a few real videos, where the attacker (real life) just unexpectedly cold-cocked the victim. No warning. No expectation of violence. Just cold-cocked them and the victim dropped like a rock.
(how many here were totally disgusted when they saw that savage attack a woman, like 103 years old, this week in New York City? Battered her like she was a rabid dog. That scene went through my bones. I hope that they catch that predator and punish him well)
Best defense is "not to be there" (universal rule, remember this) When the attack comes, your best defense is to "be somewhere else"
March 15th, 2007 06:29 PM
Let's see, he told her she was liable to shoot herself, but said nothing to her husband who had just done exactly the same thing! So if he wasn't thinking "little lady" in terms of little-of-mind then why didn't he say something to her husband? I don't know, with absolute certainty, what he was thinking--that should go without saying!--but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to be able to draw some possible conclusions from the things that people say and do. For God's sake! Isn't that the very ESSENCE of "situational awareness"!?!
Maybe I'm wrong. It's happened before. It seems likely, though, that he was a male chauvinist pig who thought women were too dumb to be able handle guns safely. If he wasn't then I would be happy to apologize to him. If he was, though, then he was being an idiot. Anyone who thinks women are too dumb and/or too uncoordinated to learn to use guns safely and well has got to have their head stuck pretty far up into a very dark place. Sadly, there are still a lot of such people around.
And what's all this talk about women being smaller? What the heck does that have to do with anything? No one has ever said they weren't! So far, everyone who has made any comment related to the "little lady" issue has been commenting about how DUMB it is to think that women cannot learn to handle firearms safely. How the leap was made from that to their average size is completely beyond me.
Last edited by denverd0n; March 15th, 2007 at 06:34 PM.
March 15th, 2007 07:06 PM
The discussion kinda drifted to hand to hand combat. I think that's where the size issue came in.
Originally Posted by denverd0n
BTW, I've gotta story to tell that I believe is relevant: Many years ago, I took a pistolcraft class from a superb trainer who was a no B.S. kinda guy who worked us half to death.
It all started with an informal "meet and greet" at a local pancake house for breakfast at 0dark:30. There was a young lady present who was rather shy and reserved. About 110lbs dripping wet with a Glock in her pocket.
No one treated her with any disrespect at first, but shooters being equipment junkies, we all started comparing toys. I was packing a Glock, with a 'Smith 3953 as a BUG. A Federal Agent was packing a 226 with a J-frame on his ankle. A third guy was also packing a 226, but no BUG, and so on. All of us carrying "wonder-nines" or 1911's. When it was the lady's turn, she told us that all she ever carried was a 3" Model 65 'Smith. Well, from that point forward, we all howled and teased her mercilessly about her "obsolete" wheelgun and she was kinda "dismissed" as being an amateur shooter by the rest of the class. BIG MISTAKE!
So, we do the classroom, safety stuff, the scary videos and all the legalese and broke for lunch. Then we headed for the range. The trainer first set up a "multiple engagement" drill using 5 or 6 steel plates - not as an entry level teaching tool, but rather as a means of sorting out the various students by skill level - sort of a "placement test".
Well, The Fed with the Sig (no relation to Steve) shot very well, as did most of us to varying degrees. Then the lady with the revolver stepped up to the line. Her draw was a blur, she nailed (and took down) each plate with a single, dead center hit in about 3/4ths the time any of the rest of us did - USING FULL POWER MAGNUMS! She then did the fastest speedload I have ever personally witnessed - she shut the cylinder while there was brass still bouncing and the speedloader was still mid-air. This of course resulted in a collective gasp by all present, AND A BUNCH OF REDFACED GUYS!
She was then introduced to us - turns out she was a firearms instructor for a particular three letter federal agency, and a damn good one, too!!!
So, the moral of the story, boys and girls is that when properly trained, females are absolutely as capable as any man with a defensive forearm. And again, since BG's are likely to dismiss them as a threat (just as a bunch of us young bucks had done at breakfast) I would have to say that perhaps they possess capabilities that surpass a man's for personal defense. And if she has kids to protect? To use a very corney phrase from a 70's era TV show: "I pitty the fool"!
March 15th, 2007 07:14 PM
Yeah, I agree.
How the leap was made from that to their average size is completely beyond me.
Limatunes, yes you do look intimidating (if that is how you greet guests to your home. LOL) I need to remind myself to call first!!
March 15th, 2007 07:31 PM
Yes, exactly. Somehow I think that men (or dads) would protect their kids, and wallop anyone messing with their young... but don't mess with momma bear's cubs.
I would have to say that perhaps they possess capabilities that surpass a man's for personal defense. And if she has kids to protect? To use a very corny phrase from a 70's era TV show: "I pity the fool"!
I am a knuckle dragging neanderthal chauvinist and proud of it, and I have a deep seated respect for mothers with their kids. (actually, I live in Florida, which is a little bit south of Neanderthal)
(now, for a very corny phrase from an 80's era TV show: "Homey don't play". Momma don't play that!)
I have been married for 29 years to the same wonderful woman. Women may forgive and women may forget, but they never forget what they forgave. (and all the husbands said AMEN)
Last edited by Joel; March 15th, 2007 at 07:38 PM.
March 15th, 2007 07:38 PM
I think that most BGs would tend to view a woman as a potential victim and not as a potential threat. I have known and worked with some female LEOs both military and civilian. In most cases they were every bit as good and in many cases better then their male counter parts. That being said, what is the ratio of male to female CCW holders? Probably just a fraction of the total CCW holders are women 10%, 20%, 30% probably not over 30%. How many ladies do we have posting on this site? So I think it reasonable to assume that the mutt’s attention will be on who they perceive to be the greatest threat. With any sort of luck that will give you ladies that extra second or two before they see the error of their thinking. just my $.02
“When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll on your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier,” – Rudyard Kipling (The Young British Soldier)
"Hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have."
- William Munny (Clint Eastwood in the Unfrogivin)
“The graveyards are full of indispensable men.” – Napoleon Bonaparte
“My Idea of a fair fight is beating baby seals with a club”
March 15th, 2007 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by Joel
March 16th, 2007 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by limatunes
I If I were not madly in love with my wife and not already married.....I would seriously ask you out. You are one cool lady.
Love that rifle!
March 16th, 2007 03:25 AM
Ya know where women have other advantage when it comes to guns and self defense? Learning.
Women come to training willing to learn, and not thinking they know everything. A lot of guys come to train thinking they are billy bad and they know everything because they saw this or that on TV, and Uncle Joe who was in the Air Farce said one thing or another.
A woman on the other hand, comes to training with the mindset of, I may or may not be knowledgable, but I want to learn what you know. They also have a lot less bad habits in shooting techniques than the guys do. They only time they do come with bad habits is when their boyfriends, dads, husbands who dont know squat about squat try to teach them to shoot to prepare them for the class.
FWIW, as an instructor, I have learned far more from the "students" than I have ever taught them.
I have found that the girls who want to be there make the best students, and those who are just tagging along with someone else are the among the worst.
March 16th, 2007 03:35 PM
Yes you do look imtimadateing. That rifle could kill a Grey Hound bus .
March 16th, 2007 04:35 PM
March 16th, 2007 07:43 PM
Lima, that is the perfect bullet for a middle aged man (compensating).
Saves us from buying the Corvette.
March 17th, 2007 12:43 PM
i could be dizzy or something but is that a 5.56 lower receiver and a .50 cal upper receiver?
What's this button do?
March 17th, 2007 01:39 PM
That's correct. My brother bought a .50 conversion kit for his AR-15. There aren't many places to shoot it, but BOY is it fun when we can!
Originally Posted by downrange
This is only the second .50 I've been able to shoot. The first was a Barrett and we were shooting at a steel target a mile away. THAT was fun. This one we were only shooting a couple of hundred yards, which is kind of like shooting a one yard with a full-size 1911, but hey, it was still fun!
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