SHTF?

This is a discussion on SHTF? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO the mother in law comes to visit for a loooong weekend, its great practice for your bug out plan, I've used ...

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Thread: SHTF?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    the mother in law comes to visit for a loooong weekend, its great practice for your bug out plan,
    I've used my bug out stuff and plan a few times.
    haha!! you crack me up... :P :P :P

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  3. #32
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    To me SHTF is a localized (to my person or genearl area) situation ie riot, civil unrest, attempted mugging etc...... or a breakdown of goverment for a short period of time ie Hurricane or other natural diaster were it takes 3 or so days for the goverment to restore order.

    TEOTWAWKI is over a larger area or for a longer period of time.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    For me it would be scenarios similar to these real life events;

    * 'Major power outage hits New York, other large cities'
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/08/14/power.outage/

    * Meltdown at Three Mile Island
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/three

    * 'Big Bay Lake Dam Break'
    http://www.srh.noaa.gov/jan/events/D..._dambreak.html

    * 'The Great Pandemic of 1918: State by State'
    http://www.pandemicflu.gov/general/greatpandemic2.html

    * Train explosion forces N.Y. town's evacuation
    http://www.thetranscript.com/nation/ci_5425681

    * Blizzards and the resulting social issues of a food supply shortage even for a short term (e.g. one week)
    http://nsidc.org/snow/blizzards.html

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #34
    Member Array Gadfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briansmech View Post
    zombies can easily be repelled with duct tape and plastic sheeting....

    Al Gore said so.
    Actually, I believe that brainiac would be Tom "Duct Tape" Ridge--Republican head of Homeland Security (former). That life-saving tactic affectionately known as "Duct and Cover".
    Don't forget to bow as the chariot passes.

  6. #35
    Member Array Gadfly's Avatar
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    Here's a disturbing thought. We think that all of us who keep firearms and ammo on hand to fight off the "zombies as the 'good guys'. Well, you might want to keep this thought in mind:
    I once asked a buddy (former) what he would do when the SHTF. If he had water, food, cash, shelter, etc. He just looked at me with a funny grin and said, "I have my guns and X [a wealthy neighborhood] is only a mile away."
    I looked at him like he was joking, but he never said that he was. I think that 'pillage' just might be HIS fallback position.
    Even more reason to keep one's survival/gun position--like the whole CCW thing--a big secret.
    Maybe even hang a peace sign outside the home . . . "Oh, hi there! SURPRISE!!" <Boom>
    Don't forget to bow as the chariot passes.

  7. #36
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    Civil Order Breakdown...

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Natural disaster (ie Katrina). Man-made disaster (ie Bhopal gas leak). Civil order breakdown. Civil services breakdown, possibly with civil order breakdown. Any military operation to quell disturbances or contain whatever.

    Any of those has a high likelihood of separating people from their routines, from food/water and supplies, could easily disrupt the economy. People on the edge will have few options. If bad enough, or if the State gets into the game and eliminates the possibility of travel, getting out/away might not be an option.

    In any case, whether being stuck in or having to bug out, self-defense gets complicated with the elevated risk of (a) random crimes, (b) mob crimes, (c) fast-moving situations like your garden-variety riot, or (d) longer-term situations like the post-Katrina debacle and crimes.
    because of everything else that can go wrong...this wouldn't take a lot of time...BE PREPARED!

    Stay armed...stay 'stocked'...stay safe!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  8. #37
    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    Here's a disturbing thought. We think that all of us who keep firearms and ammo on hand to fight off the "zombies as the 'good guys'. Well, you might want to keep this thought in mind:
    I once asked a buddy (former) what he would do when the SHTF. If he had water, food, cash, shelter, etc. He just looked at me with a funny grin and said, "I have my guns and X [a wealthy neighborhood] is only a mile away."
    I looked at him like he was joking, but he never said that he was. I think that 'pillage' just might be HIS fallback position.
    Even more reason to keep one's survival/gun position--like the whole CCW thing--a big secret.
    Maybe even hang a peace sign outside the home . . . "Oh, hi there! SURPRISE!!" <Boom>

    In a SHTF situation, I would never think about taking from other families... But there is a Wal-Mart distribution warehouse nearby that we could visit.
    "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud..."
    -Jeff Cooper, "The Art of the Rifle"

  9. #38
    Member Array vernonator's Avatar
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    I work in Security/Risk Management for a large Insurance company so I get to go to some very interesting security briefs. The most likey event for a SHTF that could turn into TEOTWAWKI is a Pandemic. WHEN not IF the H5N1 virus can be spread person to person expect an almost complete colapse of society.

    At a recent CDC/DHS briefing they were pretty brutal, in a county with 1.9 million they said to expect 25,000 dead in the first TWO WEEKS. Expect 80-90&#37; of the work foce to stay home, which will result in the collapse of vital infrasructure (no electric/gas/water). Food warehouses now stock only an avg of 4 days supply so expect food riots within weeks. There will be virutally NO help from the feds. Once a virus is isolated they will take 30 - 60 days to develop a vacine and another 3 - 6 months to distribute.

    Its pretty dire - I have started to stockpile food/water and ammo. I live in the country and have made sure I keep my Propane tank full.....

  10. #39
    Member Array glembe's Avatar
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    The Day of the Triffids



    "A meteorite shower lights up the sky and blinds all that watches it. Most of the world population must also deal with some rather weird plant life that can uproot itself and seek human nourishment."

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055894/

    I think the premise of this movie would be a good scenario.

  11. #40
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    I agree that SHTF scenarios are per area. For example, power goes out on the entire east coast. In the middle of winter it would be a major problem, in the middle of summer it would not be an out of control problem for at least a week or two. Most homes have some sort of food sitting in their cupboards that can be eaten to survive such as crackers or cookies, canned foods. In the winter people would start freezing to death the first night. Most people with gas generators will be out of gas in a few days and by that time and natural gas might be out depending on other circumstances. Candles and other items will be used up. Water will be at a minimum and people will start to get mean. Conditions will start to get unsanitary. Anyone with a working generator will be a target for others to migrate to. If you live in a populated area you will start to see gangs forming because there is strength in numbers. All your anti gun neighbors are wishing they had a gun by this time. We would like to think by this time the government would be flying in supplies and helping out but we seen what they are capable of with Katerina and I doubt they changed much. Then all of a sudden the lights come back on and all that bad stuff that happened between you and your neighbors will be forgotten and we will continue on with our lives like nothing happened.

  12. #41
    New Member Array arghm8y's Avatar
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    Glad I don't Live in Pittsburg

    Studies have already been done and places really ARE unprepared. Take, for example, this article from a "TRUSTED" news source
    Study Reveals Pittsburgh Unprepared For Full-Scale Zombie Attack

    PITTSBURGH—A zombie-preparedness study, commissioned by Pittsburgh Mayor Tom Murphy and released Monday, indicates that the city could easily succumb to a devastating zombie attack. Insufficient emergency-management-personnel training and poorly conceived undead-defense measures have left the city at great risk for all-out destruction at the hands of the living dead, according to the Zombie Preparedness Institute.

    "When it comes to defending ourselves against an army of reanimated human corpses, the officials in charge have fallen asleep at the wheel," Murphy said. "Who's in charge of sweep-and-burn missions to clear out infected areas? Who's going to guard the cemeteries at night? If zombies were to arrive in the city tomorrow, we'd all be roaming the earth in search of human brains by Friday."

    Government-conducted zombie-attack scenarios described on the State Department's website indicate that a successful, citywide zombie takeover would take 10 days, but according to ZPI statistician Dr. Milton Cornelius, the government's models fail to incorporate such factors as the zombies' rudimentary reasoning skills and basic tool use.

    "Today's zombies quickly learn to open doors, break windows, and stage ambushes," Cornelius said. "In one 1985 incident in Louisville, a band of zombies was able to lure four paramedics and countless law-enforcement officials to their deaths by commandeering an ambulance radio and calling for backup."

    ZPI researchers noted that tens of thousands of Pittsburgh citizens live in close proximity to a cemetery. This fact, coupled with abnormally high space-radiation levels in eastern Pennsylvania and ongoing traffic issues in the East Hills and Larimer areas, led Cornelius to declare the likelihood of a successful evacuation as "slight to impossible."

    "The designated evacuation routes would be hopelessly clogged, leaving many no choice but to escape by foot," Cornelius said. "Add a single lurching zombie into that easily panicked crowd and you've got a nightmare scenario."

    Cornelius' model shows that after the ensuing stampede, "the zombie could pick and choose his victims," and predicts the creation of hundreds of new undead "in a single half-hour feeding frenzy."

    Pittsburgh's structural defenses are particularly inadequate. The city's emergency safe houses, established by a city ordinance in the early '70s, lack even the most basic fortifications for zombie invasion.

    "Under the ordinance, wooden tool sheds and rusty station wagons are classified as adequate shelter," Cornelius said. "But once dozens of zombies hungering for living flesh begin pounding on the walls and driving their half-decomposed fists through the windows, sheds and cars quickly give way."

    Federal Undead Management Agency spokesperson Dr. Sheena Aurora downplayed the ZPI report, arguing that zombies move slowly and can be easily overpowered. Aurora advised citizens to look over their shoulders frequently, adding that a large shopping mall can serve as a "long-term, even fun" refuge from zombies.

    Such assertions alarm zombiologist Olivier Baptiste, who calls FUMA's information "hopelessly outdated."

    "Dr. Aurora's claims are based on decades-old zombie models," Baptiste said. "Widely released evidence from recent years clearly shows that zombies can run just as fast, if not faster, than a living human."

    Added Baptiste: "That FUMA trains its field agents to shoot zombies in the torso, rather than the head, demonstrates just how out of touch the government is."

    Evans City, PA Police Chief Gino Fulci said zombie preparedness comes down to training on the local level.

    "Children need to be taught from preschool that they might have to put a bullet between the eyes of their own undead mother," Fulci said. "'Destroy The Brain' banners should be hung above the entrances of schools, churches, and town halls everywhere."

    Cornelius recommends that Pittsburgh residents prepare a "go-bag" containing a Glock 17 pistol and 50 rounds of ammunition. If leaving the house is not an option, Cornelius advises residents to barricade all first-story doors and windows, and have at least one method of suicide prepared, should zombies successfully breach the home.
    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41676

    -Argh

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    I love The Onion. :)
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

  14. #43
    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arghm8y View Post
    Studies have already been done and places really ARE unprepared. Take, for example, this article from a "TRUSTED" news source

    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41676

    -Argh
    Some people really have too much free time... I guess I am one of them because I actually took the time to read all of that.
    "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud..."
    -Jeff Cooper, "The Art of the Rifle"

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I understand the head shot is a zombie stopper, 100% Especially from a .30-30.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  16. #45
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    Wink Observation...

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Don't foget about the 1992 L.A. Riots, or something similar. You have to be prepared even if something along the lines of the North Hollywood Shootout were to occur in your neighborhood. But I doubt that kind of stuff would happen out here in Texas...but you can never be too prepared!

    Cheers! M2
    Notice that the Korean store owners in L.A. during the 1992 riots were not scratched. I wonder: Did the fact that those Koreans walked their rooftops with AR15's have anything to do with this?

    Next, the North Hollywood shootout was a LEO embarrassment. They all cried about being outgunned by full auto. I remember those cops stormed into gunshops begging to borrow the AR15's in the racks. This proves that firepower does not equal increased numbers of bullets in the air. Had those cops asked for some scope sighted deer rifles or heck even a decent iron sighted thutty-thutty deer rifle out to about 80 meters a decent head shot should be possible. Even if the scope's not zeroed, one shot to determine where it's hitting against a good backstop and a little kentucky windage should have stopped hostilities.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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