Chicago Cop Allegedly Seen Beating Woman On Video

Chicago Cop Allegedly Seen Beating Woman On Video

This is a discussion on Chicago Cop Allegedly Seen Beating Woman On Video within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Preface: I just watched this being featured on CNN news and was flat out stunned. It's pretty bad. At the time of the incident neither ...

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Thread: Chicago Cop Allegedly Seen Beating Woman On Video

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Unhappy Chicago Cop Allegedly Seen Beating Woman On Video

    Preface: I just watched this being featured on CNN news and was flat out stunned. It's pretty bad.

    At the time of the incident neither the bartender nor the patrons knew that the guy was a cop. As well what is not shown in the video is that the cop was being belligerent leading up to the beating he had been "play punching" anothe guy in the bar and that he came behind the bar prior to which she had pushed him away and then decided to cut him off.
    She reports and the video shows that none of the other males in the bar made any motion to offer her assistance prior nor during the beating she endured and single handedly fought off. The cop as reported on CNN is 6'1" @ 250lbs. and she is 5'4" @ 115 lbs (!). Take close note of what the guys at the bar witnessing the event do and the actions of the two guys that come in late after the beatdown is is pretty much over.
    The woman reported live on CNN that she is having psycohological post trauma issues along with pain in her head and back as a result of the attack.

    Edit: Note...Neither the victim nor any of the witnesses knew the person was a LEO. He wa in street clothing and was off duty not working in any offical capacity. It was not possible for anyone to have known he was a cop.

    Quote Originally Posted by CBS5.com

    Chicago Cop Allegedly Seen Beating Woman On Video

    CBS) CHICAGO A Chicago Police officer is in criminal trouble and could soon be out of a job, over accusations that he beat and kicked a female bartender on the city's Northwest Side.

    Officer Anthony Abbate is charged with aggravated battery in connection with an attack at Jesse's Shortstop Inn.

    The Chicago Sun-Times reported that surveillance video taken inside the bar appears to show Abbate punching and kicking the bartender while off duty.

    The bartender filed a police report but Abbate checked himself into a medical facility so he was not arrested until last week, authorities said.

    The Police Department has moved to have Abbate fired.

    The story with video can be found at; http://cbs5.com/topstories/topstorie...080175527.html
    I post this here in the tac scenarios area because the likely hood of this event is very real and possible in an establishment such as this, a bar, or even a more family oriented facilty such as a pool hall, bowling alley, or hell even the bar at your local TGI Friday.
    Not all of us are 6' or have 250 lbs of mass muchless youth or physical tools to go hand to hand with a drunken man of this size.
    So whether you can carry or not in a liquor establishment in your own state/town, what might you do had this situation devolved in front of you?

    Call the cops before hand as they guy began punching the other male in so called jest?
    Call the cops once he was cut off for being unable to pay for his bill and he got verbally belligerent?
    Would you deem this situation allowable for interdiction upon he attacking the bartender with the chair and his fists and if so would you deploy your CCW if carry in a liquor serving establishment is allowed in your state/town?

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; March 22nd, 2007 at 12:40 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing


  2. #2
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    If the cop was in uniform, talk about your no-win scenario. If you intervine and use deadly force...... OUCH! You killed a cop and you are frigging doomed. If you do nothing, the woman may get killed.
    Sorry to say this but I wouldn't touch this one.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    he wasnt in uniform and honestly, you wouldnt have pegged him for an officer.

    some people just carry themselves in a manner, this guy didnt. he deserved a good dose of lead poisoning.

  4. #4
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy
    If the cop was in uniform, talk about your no-win scenario.
    Even out of uniform I would say it's no-win for you. The plain fact of the matter is that if you are ever involved in any kind of altercation with a cop you can forget completely about the idea of "innocent until proven guilty." Every prosecutor, every judge, and every juror is going to begin with the assumption that you were in the wrong! You are going to have to come up with some pretty compelling proof that you were not.

    It may not be "right," but that's the way it is!

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    No, he was not in uniform.
    He was not on duty or onsite in any official/work capacity.
    He was there alone in street clothing getting **** faced.
    There was no outward clue in his demeanor or clothing toward his profession either on video nor as stated by the victim.

    Even worst...if there had not been by chance a video camera installed and it just happened to be angled in view of the bar at this perspective then well the bartender would pretty much have no case and if a person had actually interjected himself/themself and attempted to stop this guy they too would be in a no-win situation against a cops word.

    Even if the guy were not a cop though, forget that part for a second because no one knew he was a cop during the event, there is still significant danger inherent.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    No indication that this guy was a cop. A 250 lb. male beating a 115 lb. female to death by the appearance of things. No cop even in uniform would be allowed to do this. (Sorry, I forgot that this was in Chicago.) In MN all the requirements for self defense are there if you ask me. The state, here in MN, would have to prove otherwise and that somehow I had known this was a cop. Even so, like I said, a cop is not allowed to beat a suspect to death just because they are a cop. I don't see myself as being in the wrong for intervening with my gun. There is disparity of force even against me. I think that a reasonable person under these circumstances would see it that way. Am I missing something?
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    Every prosecutor, every judge, and every juror is going to begin with the assumption that you were in the wrong! You are going to have to come up with some pretty compelling proof that you were not.
    like..... the video? :P:

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the video has been moved, but Miggy is right. You are in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation there.

    Even if you were to go hands on, there is the whole asaulting a police officer thing to worry about. I would hope that a judge would see it for what it is. Cop or not, drunk is drunk.
    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    BTW I noticed that my link to the news source with video was munged.
    I've repaired it and tested for positive functionality.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm too old school, but to me chivalry is a way of life. I've been married 14 years and I hold the door for my wife.

    That POS should should be thrown in a cage with a gorilla twice his size and let it beat the snot out of him.
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    oh, i imagine he'll spend some time ina cube, and i imagine he's get something like snot beat into him....stripes on exLEO arent healthy, at all.

    with all the publicity, this guy just became Johnny Example

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    It is a sad state of affairs when no one comes to the aid of a woman being beaten like that. Just another reason to stay out of bars and never take a job in one.

    As to using a firearm to stop the attack, you couldn't leagally have one in a bar here in Washington State.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array USPnTX's Avatar
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    I can't believe that anyone would watch this scenario without doing something. Maybe its just the fact that my parents beat chivarly into me from a very early age but I find stuff like this very disturbing.
    "Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    that man is a disgrace to his profession.

    I don't go to bars (because I can't carry in them, among other reasons), but if this situation went down, say, at the bar in a restaurant that I happened to be in, it'd be a tough call.

    I couldn't sit by and watch some poor girl get maimed/killed by someone who was literally twice her size.

    First things first, get on 911, tell the dispatcher where I am, that someone's being attacked, and I need an officer immediately, then drop the phone in my pocket.

    If he's still going nuts on her by that time, I'll keep the bar between him and me, get his attention, and loudly order him back, telling him the cops are on the way.

    Depending on how hurt the girl looks, whether she's conscious, whether he has a weapon (broken bottle, whatever), and how viciously he keeps attacking her, I would have no problem drawing my weapon and holding him at gunpoint until the (real) cops arrived. This is a call-it-as-I-see-it decision though. If he backs off or she somehow gets the upper hand, he'll never have to find out that I'm armed.

  15. #15
    Member Array Reffy's Avatar
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    I would never draw and arm on the officer, that's asking for trouble. But once that man punched her in the face he was using deadly force. Ask any judge. I'd feel VERY confident in taking a bottle of beer and smacking that guy in the head after calling the cops.

    Until he took out a weapon of some sort, or started to use his feet I would never even consider taking out of weapon of my own, never mind a firearm.

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