Captain America Syndrome

This is a discussion on Captain America Syndrome within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There is only room for one Captain America, and SIXTO has a lock on that. All kidding aside, that was an excellent post, thanks for ...

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Thread: Captain America Syndrome

  1. #16
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    There is only room for one Captain America, and SIXTO has a lock on that.

    All kidding aside, that was an excellent post, thanks for moving it over here for us to see
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #17
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    My pleasure guys. The author is a member of my IDPA club and has the knowledge of working many many years in the streets of Miami.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  4. #18
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    If he lasted many years in Miami, he must be a wise man.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #19
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    Good advice.

    Don't go looking for trouble or go where angels fear to tread.

    Keeping me, myself, and mine safe is all that counts, not trying to be a super hero.
    It's not about the caliber you carry, it's about how you USE it.

    Acts 4:12
    (Mohammad Who?)

    1988 DIE HARD 2008
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Great read. One thing I've learned from getting older and living what some have considered a somewhat adventurous life is not to go hunting for trouble. It all to often will find you! I defend my family first!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    If he lasted many years in Miami, he must be a wise man.
    He is indeed. He is Master in IDPA SSP and he is the least tactical-gadget guy you will ever see. While you will see shooters witt all kinds of Ninja range bags and carefully reloaded-almost-gamer ammo and all the 5.11 wardrobe, this feller here comes in jeans, t-shirt, some old shirt and a 5 gallon bucket as range case. Of course, he is High Speed, Low drag where it counts: shooting.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  8. #22
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    Its funny, the best shootin guys are always that way. I shoot bowling pins with a older guy who shows up with a snubby in his pocket, and a paper lunch bag full of his ammo. He can barely walk, but he knocks those pins off the table faster than anybody I have ever seen.
    All the newer guys with the tricked out 1911's and performance center's laugh at him... then he kicks their butts and takes the nights winnings. I love to watch him shoot, he's a hell of nice guy too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #23
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    Good information and advice especially to those of us new to CC. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

  10. #24
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    In modern America, "Captains America" (aka, heroes) are all too often butchered at the knees of lady Liberty (that is, by the fine 12 peers sitting over yonder and the crank in the suit with a bee in his bonnet).

    And no, not everyone wants to be C.A. at some point. I'm just trying to stay alive, safe and healthy. For me and mine, unless something blows up right in front of me. No search & destroy in the name of something greater ... which would be something so much less, IMO.
    How about this? Any time you're in a situation where you could be Captain America, but don't because of the very sensible reasons above, when the dust is all settled, it'd be a nice gesture to tell anyone hurt (or their families) that you were carrying and could have done something, but chose not to because of the legal liability. A lost printout full of cases where people really did get in trouble would be a nice addition. Maybe even a statement to the media would be good.

    Maybe if more people spoke up about how it's just not worth it to even get involved if someone's in trouble, not because of the supposed Kitty Genovese Bystander Syndrome, but because our own society actively punishes those who try to do something for the greater good, people would do something about it. Or at least they'll stop blaming society when people stand back and let bad things happen, and start blaming themselves for allowing society to become this way.

    I really wish we had a society where people did risk their lives for the greater good, to protect the innocent, etc. But instead, we have a society that persecutes anyone that tries this. And this isn't a bunch of powerful elite people who have forced this condition on us; it's regular Americans sitting in jury boxes who are ultimately to blame.

  11. #25
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    A lost printout full of cases where people really did get in trouble...
    Whoops, I mean a long printout.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth for this but isn't the story a little one sided?

    It depicts Captain America charging in with gun in hand like Rambo, looking to save the world and be a big man.

    What about a caring citizen who realizes that the cops most likely have not arrived at the scene yet? Why does someone have to go charging in with gun in hand? Agreed: that might be suicidal.

    Can’t someone go take a look and see if there is something they can do about the situation without being labeled a Captain America or a cop wannabe?

    Also, the idea that by leaving, you may leave an unlocked door and help give the bad guy more targets doesn’t fly. Sorry but I believe that is the same lame “lockdown” mentality the schools have. Stay put; hide under a desk and pray for the cops to arrive to save the day.

    An armed and determined attacker is NOT going to be stopped by a locked door. He will most likely think that since the door is lock during the business day, it must be a target rich environment.

    Here is what I would do. I would first have to decide if I could do more good going after the bad guy or protecting the people in the vicinity. If I decide that I could do more good where I am at, I will stay there and keep watch on the entrances.

    If I feel that I could help more by going to the scene of the shooting, I will do just that. Also, I am not dumb enough to go running there with a gun in my hand.

    Does it risk my life? Sure. Am I running the risk that when I do see the bad guy and pull my gun, someone else might mistake me for the bad guy? Sure.

    As I’m running to the scene am I praying that the gun shots I hear are cops taking out the bad guy? YOU BET YOUR LIFE I AM!

    I have no Walter Mitty dreams of being Captain America. I truly hope that the most violent lethal confrontation in my life is nothing more than discussing “what if” scenarios on this forum.

    But will I sit back and not act because of the risks discussed in the article? No for a second. I truly believe that good people help people. Period.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  13. #27
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    I dont disagree with you at all Paul. I do advocate a person not getting in over his head though. It far to easy to think you are helping, and all you are doing is getting in the way or making matters worse.
    Don't take on a skilled shoter with an AK with your Kel-Tec, and dont take on a skilled shooter with a Kel-Tec with your AK if you are not skilled with said weapon.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    If you cannot neutralize the shooter in less than one to two minutes
    if you can't do it in 2 minutes (an eternity, i assure you...), then you're gonna be in the way or an unfortunate casualty. you dont have communication with the good guys, so you ARENT a good guy. they should start arriving within that 3-5 minute window.

    "going to take a look" is a hundred thousand times worse than a rubber necker in opposing traffic at the scene of a fender bender. the shooter has PICKEd his spot. you're more likely to walk in and provide him with another weapon and ammo and a body for cover if you dont absolutely know where he already is and have your own plan.

    if its right outside where you are, thats one thing. happening on the other end of the mall, or somewhere you arent very confident you know where, is completely another. and who's to say there is just one shooter? you walk past one BG on the way to the sounds of the first?

    too many unknown factors. i'd jump in with two feet if i had visual, but without knowing where to shoot and who, i think i might head the other way, and sit tight and look for a trench coat special.

  15. #29
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    Riding to the sound of the guns..."--

    http://www.h-net.org/~south/archives.../allusion.html

    History always repeats itself in some form or another ...

  16. #30
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    The points mentioned against my argument (the ones I buy into at least) all have to do with the risk to me. The amount of risk I accept is up to me.

    I can't agree that I would be making matters worse and I don't buy into the rubbernecking example.

    If I get to the shooter before the cops arrive, I am the only line of defense at that point (unless, hopefully, other armed citizens are around). Yeah, I know . . . they could pose a risk to me too.

    If the cops get there first, I will stop where I am, leave the gun holstered and they can handle it.

    If the cops arrive while I am firing at the bad guy, well. . . .I'll take that risk.

    As far as providing the shooter with a weapon and a body for cover, he won't even know I'm armed until I have assessed the situation and made the determination that I have a good chance to take him out.

    I guess my point was that the article seems to assume that anyone not originally at the scene of the shooting who goes there trying to help is trying to be Captain America. That is pure BS.

    The bottom line for me is that things could go very, very well or very, very badly no matter what we do. I’ll err on the side of trying to do something to help.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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