Captain America Syndrome

Captain America Syndrome

This is a discussion on Captain America Syndrome within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is a post from a LEO friend in another board. No name but I consider him the original "Been there, Done That, Have the ...

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Thread: Captain America Syndrome

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
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    Captain America Syndrome

    This is a post from a LEO friend in another board. No name but I consider him the original "Been there, Done That, Have the T-Shirt & Scars to prove it" down here and I respect his opinions VERY much. The topic was the Utah Mall shooting and eventually it went on to be a what to do if you were not easily identified as LEO or Good Guy and decide to intervine in a shootout.

    ....if you don't have the active shooter in sight, or from real short time/distance accomplish positive identification( real close gunshots), the best advice I can give anyone is not, I repeat, not go on a search and destroy mission. If you cannot neutralize the shooter in less than one to two minutes and you go looking for him with gun in hand, superhero costume on, chances are that you will run into:
    a- armed police in plainclothes, having dinner also
    b- armed shopkeeper with even less training than us
    c- armed CCW holder also wearing superhero costume
    d- illegally armed civilian hoping not to be arrested, trying to ditch weapon
    e- armed security guard assigned to post
    f- uniformed police officers, scared and faced with mass confusion, or
    g- any combination of the above and anything else possible
    Life is comprised of WHAT IF'S and WHY NOTS, tactical decisions are just that, I would always like to go b***s to the wall and pedal to the metal ,it's nice to be able to do that, but consequences need to be considered, also.
    When I was an SRT operator, I worked with a Team Leader, that used to say, don't give up any real estate. It's good advice.

    Let's say you are in the restaurant, gunshots run out and it's not happening in the premises, you don your Captain America costume and go into the mall looking for him, you have now:
    a- given up a secure location, for family and other patrons
    b- allowed the posibility that the shooter will come inside after you leave
    c- failed to lock the front door and allowed the patrons to run into danger
    thereby providing the shooter with desirable running targets

    Shortly after the Columbine incident, I initiated training exercises in different school buildings, both private and public, using School Board Police and affected District personnel as outer perimeter and all SRT members(approx. 35) for building searches as well as inmediate confrontation teams. It proved very, very interesting as we also used role players. I did 5 or 6 of these, and dudes, never take anything for granted.
    In 2000 and 2001, I also attended some training given by, don't laugh, Hialeah PD at MDCC North Campus. Hialeah PD had a gentleman, now deceased at a very early age, named Captain Eddy Del Toro, who I firmly believe was at the forefront of Active Shooter Tactics, and believed in practical training with paintball guns. This guy knew his stuff, sadly, died of an aneurysm at the early age of 52, he will be missed.
    I was starting to get old and feeble, but I really digged this stuff and wanted to take more training in this subject matter,if only in regards to DECISION MAKING. I also felt that it would keep reoccurring as people are becoming crazier and more unstable, but then I started to piss some people off and the inevitable occurred, ended up looking for other work.
    I am , please, by no means, an authority on this issue, but humbly, if there is anything I can tell you is this:
    Be professional, shed any emotions if possible, grow eyes in the back of your head and:
    Ladies and gentlemen, if you see him, please, by all means take him, dont' miss, but if you dont' see him, and decide to WHY NOT look for him, think of WHAT IF you run into people that can be confused for the shooter, or even worse have he/she confuse you for the shooter. Some decisions are counter productive at best to be regretted for the rest of your life, long or short depends on you.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  2. #2
    VIP Member Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    And Marvel just killed off Captain America, let's not forget...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  3. #3
    Member Array produman's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
    Great post. No need to be a hero.. Just protect yourself and family.
    "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
    General George Patton

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  5. #4
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    Advice to live by: If the trouble isn't right there, don't go looking for it.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  6. #5
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    If it is not your fight don't fight it. you can jump into a bag of worms
    and take out a good guy.
    Assume nothing, I took a m-16 away from a disturbed individual that was shooting up the living area when he started to change mags, assuming the rifle was empty. It had a round in the chamber, I could have been shot as I was a member of the establishment. I should have let the Gunny handle it.

  7. #6
    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    Read this and then reread this. I know of no better advice out there than the above post. Now read it again.
    There are 10 types of people in the world:
    Those who understand binary, and those that don't.

  8. #7
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    Great post! I particularly liked
    don't give up any real estate
    Particularly thought it appropriate as a "defender"
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here

    "A man without ethics is a wild beast loosed upon the world" Albert Camus

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array mavrik46's Avatar
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    Great advice. And thanks.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Protecting me and my family is why I carry. Plain and simple.

    Now, if the nut job gunman is near me, yes, I will engage him but, if he isn't in sight then my only job is to either get my family the hell out of Dodge or to keep them down and safe until the cavalry arrives.

    I am not a cop (anymore anyway) and I am not going looking for the nut job.
    ,=====o00o _
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperKnight View Post
    Advice to live by: If the trouble isn't right there, don't go looking for it.
    Better yet, dig in in case trouble comes to you.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson

    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    good read. Everybody wants to be Captain America at some point, but it needs to be kept in check. CA Syndrome can be fatal, and not just to you.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    In modern America, "Captains America" (aka, heroes) are all too often butchered at the knees of lady Liberty (that is, by the fine 12 peers sitting over yonder and the crank in the suit with a bee in his bonnet).

    And no, not everyone wants to be C.A. at some point. I'm just trying to stay alive, safe and healthy. For me and mine, unless something blows up right in front of me. No search & destroy in the name of something greater ... which would be something so much less, IMO.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  14. #13
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    It's A Cruel World...

    I only take care of 'me and mine'...

    "That's all folks..."

    Any more than that and you're just asking for more trouble than you can afford...$$$$$


    Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”

    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    excllent post - sounds like good advice too!!

    maybe this should be a sticky?

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Some fine reading there . Thanks for the post .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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