Things are not always what they seem. Remember that before you get too involved!

Things are not always what they seem. Remember that before you get too involved!

This is a discussion on Things are not always what they seem. Remember that before you get too involved! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.ketv.com/news/11390515/detail.html Apparent Abduction Turns Out To Be Argument POSTED: 6:43 pm CDT March 26, 2007 UPDATED: 10:43 pm CDT March 26, 2007 Email This Story ...

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Thread: Things are not always what they seem. Remember that before you get too involved!

  1. #1
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
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    Things are not always what they seem. Remember that before you get too involved!

    http://www.ketv.com/news/11390515/detail.html




    Apparent Abduction Turns Out To Be Argument


    POSTED: 6:43 pm CDT March 26, 2007

    UPDATED: 10:43 pm CDT March 26, 2007

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    OMAHA, Neb. -- Omaha Police said Monday night that an apparent abduction a young woman in south Omaha turned out to be an argument.

    It was reported near 21st and S streets on Monday afternoon.

    Witnesses told officers two men assaulted a woman, then forced her into a truck.

    Police said the woman met with them and told them there was no assault.

    They said she told them it was an argument with her boyfriend.

    Police said the woman did not appear to have any visible signs of being attacked.


    for those of us who carry weapons, we need to remember that all situations are not what they appear to be. Sometimes calling 911 and being a good witness is the better thing to do.. I'd sure hate to be a person who pulled a gun to stop an "abduction" when there wasn't even one going on. a good reminder for us to really think before we get involved too deeply.


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    This is why I don't get involved beyond calling 911.

    No one that I don't personally know as a member of my family is worth getting in to trouble over, unless you are a Uniformed Police Officer.

    Biker

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    It's not a matter of being cowardly. It's a matter of thinking rationally and using your brain. Unless you've seen all of an event and know for a fact it's a violent crime and who the perp is, playing Captain America can be exceedingly costly to all involved.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Its a touchie call most of the time. Of course I will make the 911 call but I will also stay there to see if anything goes SOUTH untill the proper people arrive. Sometimes a witness being pressent will change the situation.

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Hennessy View Post
    Its a touchie call most of the time. Of course I will make the 911 call but I will also stay there to see if anything goes SOUTH untill the proper people arrive. Sometimes a witness being pressent will change the situation.
    +1

    Well said.
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  6. #6
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    Touchy? To Say The Least...

    just be a good witness...this is hard to say sometimes, but it is not worth getting into the middle of a dispute that does not directly effect 'you or yours'...

    ret
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  7. #7
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    just be a good witness...this is hard to say sometimes, but it is not worth getting into the middle of a dispute that does not directly effect 'you or yours'...

    ret

    I agree.. and it is hard to say. but there are just times when you need to worry about yourself. And there are times when you can consider acting... but the first rule is worry about yourself first... don't just go running up with a gun because people are seen arguing.

    With adults, it's a little harder to kidnap them.. they can fight back a bit more, scream, know that something is wrong and yell for help. Now seeing a kid get abducted and screaming for help, being thrown around, hit.. etc.. I may just have to at least speak up on that one.. and hopefully stop something bad from happening before it goes too far and the kid is taken away by a kidnapper.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    It's sort of sad. The shoot-em-dead types of threads get multiple dozens of posts from folks trumpeting "Captain America" type actions and lambasting wimpy, so-called ode-to-Genovese actions, and yet a thread such as this gets only a handful of replies.

    I'd like to think we're more level-headed than this, when the chips are down.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    It's sort of sad. The shoot-em-dead types of threads get multiple dozens of posts from folks trumpeting "Captain America" type actions and lambasting wimpy, so-called ode-to-Genovese actions, and yet a thread such as this gets only a handful of replies.

    I'd like to think we're more level-headed than this, when the chips are down.
    Actually, there seems to be more of them around than we might like! But I figure talk is cheap. I'm posting a lot less in some areas than I used to because of several things going on in my life right now but also because I'm not feeling like more pointless silliness and bickering about this stuff. I know where I'm at and don't figure on changing a net ninja anyways.

    Reality is much different than boasting on a forum. I've walked through enough reality to tread pretty carefully out there in the real world and yeah, intervention is a pretty dicey thing. That's what that 911 thing is for. I'll be a great witness until then or if something really hits the fan and I can no longer avoid it!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  10. #10
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    This is pretty much an extension of the "abduction in progress" thread. Your conscience may not allow you to just stand there and watch, but your brain had pretty darned well better tell you to go slowly and carefully as long as you are not 100% sure of exactly what is happening.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Why can't we just leave it at: think about what you're going to do before deciding whether or not to take action and proceed (or not) cautiously.

    Everyone has to decide for himself.

    We don't need to talk down to someone because we disagree with whatever action he will or will not take.

    I already have said in other threads what I would do and I absolutely DO NOT think any less of those who would do differently than I would.

    I think we can dispense with labeling people as cowards or wimps or Captain America's.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  12. #12
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulG
    I think we can dispense with labeling people as cowards or wimps or Captain America's.
    In general I would agree. I certainly would never label anyone a coward because in situations that don't involve them directly they choose to be a good witness rather than risking their own lives. I also would never label anyone a "Captain America" because they have decided that they have an obligation to others even if they may put themselves at risk in the process.

    On the other hand, every now and then someone shows up on this forum (they never seem to last very long) who appears to have the attitude of "I don't take crap from nobody and by God if I see anybody doing anything wrong I'm drawin my piece and takin 'em down!" The untold number of things wrong with that attitude really NEED to be pointed out, and if that means labeling them a "Captain America" then so be it.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Denver.

    There are alot of people, on the internets, who seemingly are just dying to be the next Ralph Hinkley.

    We as individuals and a community at large have a responsibility to err on the side of conservative caution considering that outside of web forums and our own individual imagings of scenarios et. al. there are in reality no undo, redo, second life, nor super slo-mo freeze frame play by play total recall of how events might go down for use to in real time review and to make active S has HTF right now in my face decisions against.

    Whether we be at home, work, or on the streets it is to our best interests as individuals and a community to think before we act and act while thinking, no matter how folks might refer to us by name.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  14. #14
    Member Array bmwaddicted's Avatar
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    This incident that was told can give some people a reason to stand back and do nothing, but im not one of those people. If I witness what is in my eyes an abduction; im going to assist. I think that the whole 'captain america' saying is bs. If you assist, you're being a responsible citizen, plain and simple. It might be a argument, but regardless, they don't have a right to force her to do anything. If they were in the right, then they won't mind explaining their actions to the authorities before they leave. Im not going to chance some woman's life on the thought that its not my business. I would think any self-respecting man would feel the same. Just my opinion.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Janq Ė Your comments could also apply to merely defending your family when the SHTF. I donít think ANYONE would argue that you should proceed with extreme caution. That goes for staying put to defend people around you or going to see if you can help at another location. And donít fixate on the ďI have a gunĒ aspect. Itís true that when I get to the location of the shooter, I may decide to try to take him out. On the other hand, I may end up simply trying to stop the bleeding of a victim until the paramedics get to them or grabbing a child to get him out of harms way.

    Denverd0n Ė I agree that people with the "I don't take crap from nobody and by God if I see anybody doing anything wrong I'm drawin my piece and takin 'em down!" have the wrong attitude entirely.

    I know I havenít been a member of CC.com for long, but so far I havenít seen that attitude here.

    My gripe is that it appears that some people automatically assume that ANYONE who decides to go and see if they can help is a Captain America.

    While some may have that attitude, I want to believe that most are simply concerned citizens who made the decision to move toward the shooter to help.

    They are no more Captain America than are the concerned citizens who decided to stay put and protect those around them or to get their own family to safety under the protection of their gun.

    They are all just good people caught in a very bad situation and making different decisions as to the best course of action.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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