Dog Attack

[tinman3030]

Given this hypothetical, but quite possible situation, what do you do? It's quite clear that if a large dog with a bad attitude is attacking you, you could fear great bodily harm and respond with lethal force. What about the situation where you are walking your dog, and the same above large dog attacks your dog instead of you?

I believe in the eyes of the law, dogs are property or things, correct? can you defend property with lethal force?

Do you rely on a kick to the ribs when it has your dog by the neck?

Do you jump in the path of the attacking dog and then respond because you now fear for your life?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[ron8903]

Welcome to the forum, try the search feature "dog attack"
I'm sure there is a lot of info. there.

[jahwarrior72]

IMO, lethal force could be used. the dog could very well turn on you at any moment; plus, in most states, dogs are considered property. i actually was faced with this situation some years back. i lived in the country, and most folks in that town let their dogs run loose. everyone but me, because i had a pit bull, and local LEO made it pretty clear that they wanted him leashed and muzzled at all times, no matter that he was a family dog. on a daily walk, a neighbor's dobie run up on my mom, my dog and i. that dobie was 5 seconds from buying a ticket to that great kennel in the sky. her owner ran out and got her just in time. this wasn't the first time; that dog ran loose all day, constantly harrassing people as well as dogs. about a year and a half later, another local ended up having to shoot the dobie, for the same reason: the dobie had mauled his daschund, in his own driveway. local LEO said it was a square shoot; he was saving his dog's life, plus protesting his property. again, some places are different; i've heard in NY it still isn't justified unless the attack is against a human. i'd ask the local PD.

[havegunjoe]

Anything attacks this fine looking girl to our left and it goes down. She's pretty good about defending herself but wouldn't stand a chance against a fighting type dog. I figure a dog doesn't know that I am a human and it would stop at just killing my dog. It would move on to me next. I'm not giving it the chance. Keep your dogs leashed and you don't face that problem.

[cmidkiff]

If I'm walking my shih-tzu, or my pug, and a big dog is visible anywhere in the area, I'm going to pick up my dog and carry it. If a dog is trying to attack me, or the dog I'm holding, I'm going to shoot it (provided I have the time, and can do so without endangering bystanders, etc).

I am commonly out walking with my moluccan cockatoo sitting on my shoulder... same reasoning would apply.

From prior experience, I don't own animals that are capable of injuring someone.

[Rob72]

I don't know that I would use a firearm, but I would kill the dog. Stave in the ribs, open the belly, it will stop. A well developed pit, or 130# + Rott, I would probably shoot.

[Cupcake]

Here is some info I remember seeing on the MCRGO (Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners), Ask A Lawyer page.

Under Michigan law, any use of a firearm is an application of deadly force. Deadly force is legally permissible when it is proportional to the threat. Meaning, that deadly force may be used to prevent death, great bodily harm that could lead to death, or rape. It is entirely possible that an animal could do great bodily harm that could lead to death. So, it is possible that the use of a pistol against an attacking dog would be a justifiable use of force. Keep in mind that the circumstances would have to be such that you are in a place where you have a legal right to be, and that there is sufficient indication that your life is in danger when you fire. If you were to fire when the dog is too far away, or running away, or if you hit something other than the dog, or the dog is a toy poodle, you might face serious legal consequences. The key is that any use of force must be reasonable under the circumstances. I admire your restraint and think that the policy of not using our pistols unless we absolutely have to is the wise course of action.

While the answer contains statements of law and practical advice that are essentially correct, it is worth noting that dogs are covered by different laws than human beings. Under Michigan law, a dog is an item of personal property.

There is a statute in Michigan which states that "Any person...may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing."

However, there is another statute which states that "willfully and maliciously killing or injuring animals" is a felony punishable by up to 4 years in prison.

The practical advice given last week remains unchanged. Only use your pistol if you have to. If you or someone else is in danger of attack by an animal, use your pistol or other firearm to defend yourself and your loved ones.

From what I get out of this, My dog is legally property, and does not qualify as "livestock or Chicken." I don't think I'd would take the chance. I'd probably get hit with Unlawful Discharge, unless A round hit a bystander (even a ricochet), than I used deadly force to protect PROPERTY. NOT OK in MI.

I'd have to go man y mano with the dog. Even big dogs don't like getting punched in the head. Get on their back, hang on, punch, choke, pound his head on the ground. Don't use your gun UNTIL he turns on you. If you get bitten, you look so much more like the victim, protecting you own life.

[tinman3030]

Welcome to the forum, try the search feature "dog attack"
I'm sure there is a lot of info. there.

Thanks, I tried that first, but came up with nothing under dog, and unrelated info under dog attack. I found the search funtion was ignoring the word dog and needed the quotes around "dog attack" to get any info.

[retsupt99]

My 127# Rhodesian Ridgeback (bigger than normal...vet weighed him this morning...) can handle himself...and if he should call on me for assistance...I'll be there...

Stay armed...stay safe!

ret

[tinman3030]

From what I get out of this, My dog is legally property, and does not qualify as "livestock or Chicken." I don't think I'd would take the chance. I'd probably get hit with Unlawful Discharge, unless A round hit a bystander (even a ricochet), than I used deadly force to protect PROPERTY. NOT OK in MI.

I'd have to go man y mano with the dog. Even big dogs don't like getting punched in the head. Get on their back, hang on, punch, choke, pound his head on the ground. Don't use your gun UNTIL he turns on you. If you get bitten, you look so much more like the victim, protecting you own life.

I had read that guidance from MCRGO website which somewhat prompted the question. Mainly because it didn't directly address the dog on dog situation. I am thinking your response is probably the most accurate for michigan, but it's a shame you have to watch your dog get bit and get involved to the point where you get bit yourself, to justify your defense.

[Cupcake]

I had read that guidance from MCRGO website which somewhat prompted the question. Mainly because it didn't directly address the dog on dog situation. I am thinking your response is probably the most accurate for michigan, but it's a shame you have to watch your dog get bit and get involved to the point where you get bit yourself, to justify your defense.

Yeah, it sucks...Ok, new idea: We all go to Lawyer school and then run for County prosecuter...then we focus or prosecuting efforts on stuff that makes sense.

[ExSoldier]

I own two LARGE NEWFOUNDLAND dogs. Water rescue dogs. Think of a BIG BLACK St. Bernard. There are a couple of cousins in our neighborhood. A couple of Great Pyranees (sp) that look similar only white. BIG too. A couple of years ago, the lady who owned them was walking in our neighborhood when one of her dogs was attacked by an AKITA...a Japansese dog bred for war. That Akita grabbed hold of the dog's throat and tried to rip it open despite repeated attacks to fend it off by the lady who was using a tree limb. Another passerby tried a tire iron without much in the way of results. For some inexplicable reason, the Akita broke off it's attack and took off. The Great Pyraneese lived but for the rest of it's life was traumatized. The lady too. After that, I always carry a gun on my walks with the dogs. If my pups are grabbed in such a fashion...well those are my babies. I'd have to draw. I'd probably screw the muzzle into the attacking dogs ear and pull the trigger.

[Cupcake]

I own two LARGE NEWFOUNDLAND dogs. Water rescue dogs. Think of a BIG BLACK St. Bernard. There are a couple of cousins in our neighborhood. A couple of Great Pyranees (sp) that look similar only white. BIG too. A couple of years ago, the lady who owned them was walking in our neighborhood when one of her dogs was attacked by an AKITA...a Japansese dog bred for war. That Akita grabbed hold of the dog's throat and tried to rip it open despite repeated attacks to fend it off by the lady who was using a tree limb. Another passerby tried a tire iron without much in the way of results. For some inexplicable reason, the Akita broke off it's attack and took off. The Great Pyraneese lived but for the rest of it's life was traumatized. The lady too. After that, I always carry a gun on my walks with the dogs. If my pups are grabbed in such a fashion...well those are my babies. I'd have to draw. I'd probably screw the muzzle into the attacking dogs ear and pull the trigger.

While my response would be different from yours (I haven't met a dog yet I coudn't take by hand, if I can get behind/on top of it like a jujitsu artist, which chould be easy if he's attacking something else), I won't fault you for your approach. We all must make decisions as to what consequences we are willing to pay for our actions. I know some people are close to their pets, but I've never had one that I'd risk jail time for.

[ExSoldier]

I know some people are close to their pets, but I've never had one that I'd risk jail time for.

Go see the new movie SHOOTER: It deals with this question perfectly and exactly the way I feel about the issue, with pretty much my own reactions.

[Cupcake]

Go see the new movie SHOOTER: It deals with this question perfectly and exactly the way I feel about the issue, with pretty much my own reactions.

I was hoping to see that this weekend.