Safety in hospitals...

This is a discussion on Safety in hospitals... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ive been working in hospitals since i was 15. you would be surprised how lacking the security is. i work in a small town (50000 ...

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Thread: Safety in hospitals...

  1. #16
    Member Array isaiah357's Avatar
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    ive been working in hospitals since i was 15. you would be surprised how lacking the security is. i work in a small town (50000 people) at both hospitals we have at different times. neither hospital even permits their security force to carry pepperspray. i now work in pych and i fear an armed person everyday i come to work... i live in wisconsin so we are one of the few unenlighted states that dont have concielled carry. our elevators open right into the nurses station. there is nuclear matieral in every hospital with an Xray machine. and there is even more in an ocology unit. they measure fine amounts of very radioactive stuff, but still very very dangerous. not to mention the volume of drugs that any junky would do very crazy things to get ahold of. change the laws about hospital protection. carry if you can.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    Most hospitals feel that having a preparedness plan keeps them ready and protected in case of emergency. Unfortunately these plans are initiated after an incident not before.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_1 View Post
    Most hospitals feel that having a preparedness plan ...
    Sadly, in the twisted logic of such things, I'm sure many believe that the mere fact a security/preparedness plan is in place is acknowledgement that things are bad, risky and might blow sideways. It's the ultimate head-in-sand strategy. It's exactly like the 1950's/60's U.S. auto mfrs refusing to put in seat belts in the ludicrous belief it would acknowledge their products were unsafe.

    In the calculus of the bean counters (aka accountants), it should be this simple: cost avoidance of maintaining security is of far less benefit and lawsuit avoidance. Adding even 5% to the cost of a hospitals operations won't kill anything, but a few lawsuits when 100 people are executed in the hallways will bury a hospital, its parent corporation and infect all hospitals with a virus that won't easily cure. To say nothing of having 100 dead people by its own inaction, which runs counter to the whole mission of a hospital. Shortsighted and stupid in the extreme.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_1 View Post
    Most hospitals feel that having a preparedness plan keeps them ready and protected in case of emergency. Mike
    "When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!"
    Don't do us no favors guys. Learn a lesson from society at large- the "safer" you try to make us, the less able we'll be to defend ourselves.

    Bear in mind, hospitals, particularly modern EDs are generally built on a variation of the 1800s "Rubicon" prison model. IOW, the BG has 360 degrees of exposure to the staff/patients. He will have maybe 30 degrees of exposure to arriving security/LE. I've participated in a few "live-action" drills with ED staff and LE. There are many opportunities to put down the BG, if you are armed, and no, you aren't real likely to get shot by LE.

    A terrorist take-over is a different matter, but the general A-hole after his ex or similar, leaves a pretty clear demarcation between staff and perp.

  6. #20
    Member Array Wheel-man's Avatar
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    Does anyone here know where I can get statistics on hospital security breeches? (violence, theft, etc. in hospitals)

    When I search for statistics and graphs what I end up getting is Injuries "treated" at hospitals.
    If anti-gun legislators truly believed that guns kill people, the guns would be on the witness stand and the assailent would be holding the "Exhibit A" sign.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    http://admin-scb.ouhsc.edu/ems/OUHSC...lysis1998.html
    Here's a linkfor OU. You should be able to find something similar for any University affiliated hospital. Be warned: creative analysis is always used to some degree. The concept of safety as a "perception" is stronger nowhere than a hospital. As far as public hospitals, you can try to get a summation from local LE, but they may not give you a breakdown, smaller than patrol divisions. Ie, you may know that for Eastern Division 35% of shooting calls were within 5 blocks of "Big Hospital", but nothing further. Hospitals also spend some fundage with local reporting affiliates to assist in minimizing "damage".

  8. #22
    Member Array SA-XD40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Depends on who got shot, stabbed or snatched. Like most campuses, of any sort, it usually takes extreme violence to initaite meaningful change, and the incident will usually be seldom discussed.
    In the largest hospital in our area, the one we visit the most (family, friends, church members, etc...) a man was shot and killed in the parking lot by an unknown assailant. Do I feel safe there? Does my spouse go there alone? NO! Do I carry there?
    When a criminal busts down your door in the middle of the night, which would you rather have in your hand - a gun, or a phone?

    When a thug shoves a gun in your face in the mall parking lot, which would you rather have in your hand - a gun, or a cellphone?

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    and especially the narcotics, are secured in a system that requires PIN access with a computer system.
    I hate to be a buzz kill, but that isn't secured either... Considering I've supported a number of those systems in the past and one currently as well...they're not secure in the least...Quite frankly they're less secure than a good old fashioned lock and key. I'm not going to go into specifics(wouldn't be bright of me to give it away that easy) as to how to bypass the abundance of pinpads out there, but suffice to say...it's easy to do in a matter of seconds to a couple of minutes at most for anyone who has any type of knowledge of how they all generally work. Unless they are biometric (as far as I'm concerned)...electronic door systems are USELESS.

    To put it in perspective...the last company I worked for spent a fortune on a new door security system...motion sensors, pinpads, stab keys/prox cards. They told everyone there was no way into the building without authorized access. I had a long standing argument with them that they were wasting their money. To prove it....I had security change my pin code(so mine wouldn't work) and take my prox card and stab keys and escort me out of the building (just like I had been canned). I had the VP of Ops waiting for me on the 9th floor. I entered the building with none of the required items or pin codes and made my way to the 9th floor via a "secured" elevator in less than 10 minutes. The worst part was that even once they had this knowledge...they still kept the system...Their argument was that "not everyone knows how to do that McGuyver stuff". I'm feeling a Bill Engvall moment..."Here's your sign".
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    I entered the building with none of the required items or pin codes and made my way to the 9th floor via a "secured" elevator in less than 10 minutes. The worst part was that even once they had this knowledge...they still kept the system...Their argument was that "not everyone knows how to do that McGuyver stuff". I'm feeling a Bill Engvall moment..."Here's your sign".
    "I love you,man!" Another genuine deviant!

  11. #25
    Member Array Wheel-man's Avatar
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    I entered the building with none of the required items or pin codes and made my way to the 9th floor via a "secured" elevator in less than 10 minutes. The worst part was that even once they had this knowledge...they still kept the system...Their argument was that "not everyone knows how to do that McGuyver stuff".
    Ever thought of co-staring on "It takes a theif"?
    -----------------------------------------------
    So, wow!
    Hospitals are THAT open...
    If anti-gun legislators truly believed that guns kill people, the guns would be on the witness stand and the assailent would be holding the "Exhibit A" sign.

  12. #26
    Member Array Wheel-man's Avatar
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    Just gave my report on this and it went GREAT! I deeply appreciate all of your input!

    I'm still interested in more information on this subject though, It suprised me and some of my classmates that hospitals were so unsecure...

    I'm going to continue researching hospital security and how it is being breeched.
    If anti-gun legislators truly believed that guns kill people, the guns would be on the witness stand and the assailent would be holding the "Exhibit A" sign.

  13. #27
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    I appreciate the poor security in hospital areas...

    It is because of such...and the scary moment my wife had in a hospital parking lot, that she dicided that the time had come for her to get her own pistol, take a course, start going to the range, get her CCW, and finally...find a comfortable way to carry...

    Every cloud has its silver lining...

    Stay arned...stay safe!

    ret
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The worst part was that even once they had this knowledge...they still kept the system...Their argument was that "not everyone knows how to do that McGuyver stuff".
    The silly thing is, it's criminals who make it their jobs to learn this sort of stuff. True, the "average person" isn't in-the-know, but then that's not who you've got to worry about.

    It's no surprise to many that schools are in the crosshairs. Serious multiple-murder attacks are done reasonably often at schools, mostly because they have pathetic security and "open" designs. Much like hospitals. As one of the stones of the foundation of our infrastructure and ability to withstand disaster, it's sheer dumb luck that hospitals have not yet made it to the A-list, for criminals. It's only a matter of time.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #29
    New Member Array THE BOMB's Avatar
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    My wife and I are both ER nurses. She works in a large 650 bed hospital with a level II trauma center, just last year some nut came into the ER waiting area and shot himself in the rest room....never made the news. We wrote the local news channels but it was kept hush, hush. I myself have bailed out our "security" officers more times than I can count (hands only). Just about all hospitals have a policy about weapons at work....break that and you'll be looking for a job and maybe even loose you nursing license. Nevada CCW states that if a public building is labeled "no guns" and you're caught carrying.....deep ****! Just isn't fair!

  16. #30
    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    Hospitals are not really secure at all (I think we've more than established that lol). The major reason for not a lot of things happening there is that it's considered neutral territory. Criminals aren't likely to do anything at a hospital because they treat anyone, regardless of what that person did or was in there for in the first place.

    The ones that have to be worried about are the patients that don't want something done to them (e.g. afraid of needles, awakening in the ER and being disoriented, etc.), people targeting a specific person (e.g. high profile gang member, estranged spouse, etc.) or complete lunatics with no moral foundation (e.g. terrorists). Other than that it's pretty safe simply because it's a hospital. Sure you're going to have the small time stuff like thing stolen from a hospital room or from a car in the parking lot, but you're not likely to see anything major targeting a mass group of people randomly unless it's a fired worker from the hospital or a terrorist of some kind.
    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall." Adolf Hitler

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