What if you shoot the BG and the BG shoots someone else?? - Page 2

What if you shoot the BG and the BG shoots someone else??

This is a discussion on What if you shoot the BG and the BG shoots someone else?? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First, I wouldn't pull out a gun at that moment. It would only make an already tense situation worse and I doubt I would be ...

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  1. #16
    New Member Array Ovar's Avatar
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    First, I wouldn't pull out a gun at that moment. It would only make an already tense situation worse and I doubt I would be able to end it effectively. Only pull your gun if you are prepared to use it!

    Second, any innocent person deserves the same protection as my friends or family in my book.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    I'd take that shot with a rifle. Not with a handgun.

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array HollowpointHank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovar View Post
    First, I wouldn't pull out a gun at that moment. It would only make an already tense situation worse and I doubt I would be able to end it effectively. Only pull your gun if you are prepared to use it!

    Second, any innocent person deserves the same protection as my friends or family in my book.
    Exactly! Don't draw your weapon until the bad guy has discharged his weapon! Once he has discharged, he is fair game. If he hasn't, he is only threatening. Wait until he acts and then let him have it!!! You will have no court appointment to keep!

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Geezer's Avatar
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    In a situation like that, I couldn't trust my abilities enough to put the life of another person (NOT the BG) in danger. I feel that if the manager was shot from a reflex of my good intention, it would be like shooting the manager myself.

  5. #20
    New Member Array Ovar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowpointHank View Post
    Exactly! Don't draw your weapon until the bad guy has discharged his weapon! Once he has discharged, he is fair game. If he hasn't, he is only threatening. Wait until he acts and then let him have it!!! You will have no court appointment to keep!
    That's not exactly what I meant :D I was just saying that given he has a hostage, I wouldn't take the shot and since I would not be intending take the shot I would not draw my gun.

    At least here in TX, you can use force to prevent actions. I believe if you use your CC and shoot anyone you're required to go to court to evaluate your actions regardless.

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array HollowpointHank's Avatar
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    I didn't mean to sound heartless or uncaring. If a bad guy has his gun pointed at me I will shoot if possible whether he shoots or not. In the situation described, the manager is not a relative and so I would have no personal feelings toward him. (sorry about that) In my opinion I would have to wait until the BG discharged his weapon before I would even draw mine. This is just my own personal way of thinking. I'm sure others would draw and fire to protect him from being shot. I wouldn't.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    depends upon relationship to manager.

    depends on distance too, and how clear the shot is, and how much I have been practicing tiny target take downs lately.

    Don't forget to look for accomplices too.

    probably no shoot situation,

  8. #23
    New Member Array matt86's Avatar
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    In NC I'm not responsible for his actions.

    For instance if I rob a gas station and the clerk pulls out a gun and starts shooting at me and ends up striking and killing someone in the parking lot then it is not my responsibility. It is that of the clerk because he fired the weapon.

  9. #24
    New Member Array matt86's Avatar
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    By the way... If there's a hostage situation and the gunman has his head against that of the victim do not take a headshot. Shooting the gunman in the head will also kill the hostage.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt86 View Post
    By the way... If there's a hostage situation and the gunman has his head against that of the victim do not take a headshot. Shooting the gunman in the head will also kill the hostage.
    Really? ALWAYS?

    Are you professionally qualified to make such a blanket statement?

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Head shot

    I think in this particular case, with the gun at the managers head, and assuming the BG already has his finger on the trigger, a simple head shot really isn't enough. It's not going to cause instant incapacitation and may even cause reflexive tensioning of his trigger finger.

    IIRC, the target area for an instant incapacitation shot is something not much bigger than a thumbnail directly below the nose (assuming he was directly facing me). A tricky enough shot with a rifle on a moving, bobbing target like the head, never mind a handgun.

    Now, I'm by no means a bad shot, and I can cluster my shots into a group about that size at seven yards on a calm day with a static target and no stress. But it is pretty unlikely that I would succeed with the instant incapacitation shot in the situation described. Especially if it was from the draw!

    Depending on the relationship with the manager, I would either wait for an opening, or look primarily to protect me and mine.

    Put it another way. If it was your spouse or kid with the gun to their head (and lets assume they are untrained in any martial art and are unarmed), and lets also assume that you are not there, but a mall ninja type is, would you want him to take the shot, or would you want him to wait until the guys that train for exactly this situation to get on the scene?

    The is one of those where Chris would say 'Play it as i see it' I think!

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    okay, if it is is not murkey enough, the BG sees your gun, and grabs the manager, and orders you to put your gun down or he'll blow the manager's head off??? then what?

  13. #28
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    Exactly... What if?
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR D View Post
    okay, if it is is not murkey enough, the BG sees your gun, and grabs the manager, and orders you to put your gun down or he'll blow the manager's head off??? then what?
    I'd like to think I will never, ever give up my firearm to a BG, under normal circumstances (ie, garden variety attack, ignoring exotica like my family kidnapped and held elsewhere as 'bait'). I won't sign my own death warrant. The BG's actions against others are his crimes. The BG's very likely to finish the threat regardless of what I do. I'll go down fighting, as fast and hard as I can muster. It's not as though the GG causes any of this to happen.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #30
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    Now you have just inserted yourself into the equasion where you may end up sharing in the culpability of the outcome if things get worse from there.

    Prosecutors can be relentless and totally unreasonable in such situations. Not to say you can't get out of it... but it won't be without a price.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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