Scenario: Would you draw on a drawn gun?

This is a discussion on Scenario: Would you draw on a drawn gun? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I dont think the original poster was asking so much a question of how not to get into this situation; but placing you there and ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 39

Thread: Scenario: Would you draw on a drawn gun?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    I dont think the original poster was asking so much a question of how not to get into this situation; but placing you there and looking for answeres as to how you would deal with it (or think you will deal with it) once you are there. I agree with all who said that by being observant and diligent in safety measures, we can avoid 99% of those situations that may require a pistol. However, even we who practice these measures still carry a gun. Why? for that 1%.

    Dan

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,093

    Really Good Comments So Far

    I agree that the penalty for "lack of awareness" should not be death mandated by a "concealed carry" web forum. That is rather harsh.
    It's also very naive for Sheeple to assume that they can walk around with their heads totally up in the clouds and not be placing themselves at higher risk to become sad statistics.
    It's unfortunate that ordinary folks watch the daily news & still wrongly assume that all of those "bad things" will still ALWAYS happen to "somebody else."
    Right Now...in my area ~ the "Law Of Averages" and "Lady Luck" are still on their side & not very many folks are getting robbed, mugged, car-jacked, & raped. Those are still fairly rare occurrences but, things are slowly getting worse.
    I think it's very sad that such a majority of good American people are so ingrained with a seemingly permanent victim mentality.
    Criminals KNOW that most people will be very easy pickings & Easy Free Money.
    That fact (in some ways) actually gives us (The Prepared Armed Citizen) a real decided advantage because most criminals can get away with and ply their "trade" being untrained, unskilled, lazy, & sloppy.
    In other words...they are REALLY NOT GOOD or adept at what they do.
    They are for the most part just common dumb thugs.
    We (Forum Folks) are NOT dumb, lazy, untrained, unskilled, drug-induced, or...sloppy and....we are armed.
    That spells BIG ADVANTAGE to me if we stay honed & decently alert.
    In addition...our good situational awareness and avoidance of doing obviously stupid things will carry us a long way toward living a safe & long lifetime.
    A good, safe, long and happy life is what I wish for all our forum members & their loved ones.

    Addition:
    It's interesting that a just came across an older South African defensive maneuver that stated that an attempt at a full disarm should often NOT be taken but, that it was only necessary for a skilled shooter to radically divert the gun muzzle ~ move at a curving diagonal (forcing the BG reorient) while doing a simultaneous draw & multiple head shots.
    I'll hafta see if I can track down that web page again & provide a URL address.
    I don't know exactly what to think about that yet.
    You know...same old story...everybody has bright ideas...it's finding the "tried & true" methods that have actually been "battle tested" to be effective that is very tough.
    I think I draw quickly enough & am (hopefully) skilled enough with my carry firearm to pull that off.
    I'll need to actually run through it & see if that tactic is "real life" viable for me. Right now...I'm not too keen on the thought of leaving a BG fully armed before I've cleared leather yet.
    It could be something valuable to have stored in my upstairs mental "Bag Of Tricks" though.
    Last edited by QKShooter; March 25th, 2005 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Addition

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Prospector's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    615

    Red face

    For most part I go along with JDsummer....however, if he in fact does take the wallet and starts leaving.....TEXAS allows me to shoot the ******* dead on the spot....front, back....doesn't matter. Yeah I know, the lawyers will come crawlin out .... I don't care!

  5. #19
    New Member Array buginajar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    2
    Excellent posts guys (most of you anyway ).

    I like this forum already.

    Anyway, while reading the replies a string of robberies here in the DFW area came to mind.....In lower greenville, nightlife intense area,...there were two guys going around robbing 5-6 people at a time at gun point.

    In this situation, you could, and probably would be preoccupied with your company carrying on conversations and what not. Just something to ponder.

  6. #20
    Member Array triggertime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    66
    QKShooter: Then what is the appropriate penalty for 'lack of awareness'? Tell the BG that you were not ready and demand a do-over?

    My point is that if you are going to assume the responsibility of going armed, then you must also assume the responsibility of being aware of what is going on around you at all times. You can not walk around in the world in 'condition white' and expect to come home alive just because you have a talisman called a concealed carry permit in your wallet. It doesn't work that way. If you do not possess the proper mindset, then your firearm is not going to help you.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    Once again, I didnt say someone not paying attention is not gonna get hurt or killed. What I said was they didnt deserve it. My father works in a jail. 72 inmates to a pod, some of them criminals. Real easy to get distracted with an inmate having a siezure or other trouble and have someone clock the dep in the head while he assists. Does he deserve it? Personally, I dont think so. But, thats just me.
    If one is caught unaware, or ambushed, then one has to do what one feels at the time will permit him live another day. If you cant beat the draw, or feel your disarming technique isnt gonna work, but giving up the wallet at this second may buy you another second, wouldnt it make some sense to give it up? I dunno. Maybe I missed something. We are supposed to be the good guys. Suggesting death as a penalty for not being on the lookout for the guy in the shadows that one time just doesnt ring true for me. One of the reasons I seek out training and carry is that my wife and kids may not see someone or some situation that could cause them harm. I try to look out for all of us. But if they miss it, and do find themselves in harms way, I expect them to do what they feel they need to do to come home. Giving up a wallet seems like a small price.

    Dan

  8. #22
    Member Array triggertime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    66
    We were taught (at least I was) at a very young age to look left, right and left again before crossing a street. As we grew up, this ritual was ingrained into our mindset and it became second nature. Common sense taught us that you do not walk out into traffic without first looking both ways.

    So lets apply this logic here. If you aimlessly walk out into oncoming traffic, without first looking both ways and are killed, did you deserve to die? You knew better, didn't you?

    So whats wrong with saying that anyone who refuses to pay attention or is so oblivious to whats going on around them, that they deserve to be mugged or shot? Afterall, they knew better, didn't they?

    Either way, refusing to pay attention is being irresponsible. Especially when you have a loaded firearm on your person.

    To me, this is a common sense issue. You do not delibrately or negligently place yourself at risk and expect to survive. If you do, you're naive.

    And thats all I'm going so say on this matter. My point was missed.

  9. #23
    Senior Member
    Array APachon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    1,091
    triggertime, the problem with you statement is it can be construed into a slipepry slope. I mean have you ever gone to a city with serious high-rises, and if you have, did you constantly look up for fear of something falling on you??? If not and you were struck by something, was it too a result of your naivety??? This does happen on such a regular basis it is now commonplace in many major cities. I would postulate one is not naive becuase this is a non-calculable risk. Many view physical harm or criminal acts upon themselves in the very same manner.

    Where do the analogies stop???

    We as members of society enjoy an unwritten social contract to interact with one another in a peaceful manner. I interact with hundreds of thousands of people in a given year and none have done me an iota of physical harm. I enjoy the right to carry a weapon should the need arise to defend myself, but saying that because someone was assaulted or mugged or (insert illegal activity) just for going to the ATM or the grocery store or what not is a bit harsh. I too enjoy a mind engrained with the threat conditions and my wife has also been instructed on this "spidey sense."

    I have friends who are oblivious to life around them and regardless of what I say to them (both m & f) they go about life naive to its potential harms. There are some just not savvy enough to realize bad things do happen to good people.

    I agree that carrying a weapon does inherently increase your situational awareness and rightfully so.

    ~A
    Fave Quotes

    The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live!!!

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    Edmund Burke

    The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.
    Henry Ward Beecher

  10. #24
    Senior Member
    Array APachon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    1,091
    Just a note to add, I have some gf's (friends of my wife and I) that go to ATM's at night solo, and do not think differently of this act. Some people just do not think about conducting daily activities that may put them in harms way. There is nothing wrong with wanting to live in Utopia, however, Utopia does not exist. Several of our female friends and male friends for that matter will now go to a supermarket like Albertson's or Wally World and get money out that way.

    ~A
    Fave Quotes

    The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live!!!

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    Edmund Burke

    The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.
    Henry Ward Beecher

  11. #25
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,093

    Question More Cannon Fodder

    Actually in America what we deserve is to be able to go about the business of our daily lives without getting murdered or mugged.
    Of course I realize that we must be prepared for the very real hazards of modern day living in America. Life in general is fraught with various dangers..."man made" & naturally occurring.
    I honestly believe that some citizens are totally incapable of taking radical delf~defense measures. They do not and never will have the mindset for it. My mild mannered, polite, humble & passive next door neighbor in his late 70s will NEVER be able to go into a Condition Alert Mode & cap an armed attacker. It is just not in his personal make-up.
    He does not deserve to die because of that...nor should he wake up every morning and expect to die a violent death that day.
    Those folks have the realistic option to try to limit their exposure to dangerous situations & use some God~Given common sense to try to avoid placing themselves in situations where the likelihood of danger (to their person) is greater.
    They do not deserve to die any more than paraplegics should deserve death because they would be incapable of practical self~defense.
    Just my opinion.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  12. #26
    DC Founder
    Array Bumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    20,045
    The operative word here is "deserve". Good guys don't "deserve" to have anything bad happen to them. Bad guys do. That is not to say that a good guy dropping his guard for a moment (or going through life in a perpetual state of condition white) may be "asking for it", but he doesn't "deserve" it.....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  13. #27
    Membership Revoked Array clubsoda22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnirsson
    Yes. Let me clarify. I might not draw, I might try the disarm moves I learned in the academy, or some other tactic. Which might include drawing. But I would do something.
    Rather than be continually plagued by "what if" the rest of my life. If that same guy did let me live, I have allowed him to go rob somebody else. Also, I won't bet on him letting me live once he has what he wants. How could I live with my inaction if he went two blocks down and killed someone's child?
    Sorry, I think it would be a blow to my pride if I allowed someone to victimize me. I don't think I'd recover. No offense to anyone who thinks otherwise, it's just who I am. I'd rather die than live on my knees. I think letting the guy get away with it would torment me in the wee hours of the night. It would make me feel less of a person.
    If you know how to deal with that situation you know that a disarm is the best choice. either disarm him or control his weapon long enough to get yours out and give him a contact shot to the head.

  14. #28
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    15,844
    If you think you can walk around always and never be suprised, you need to wake up. NO ONE can be on guard and aware 100% of the time.

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    Many years ago a couple buddies and I practiced this situation, “BG” used a starter’s pistol with solid barrel so all gasses vented out the cylinder gap, “victim” used his normal carry gun empty (we checked, double checked and checked again before each run). With the gun barrel pressed against your back it is possible to spin toward your weak side and using a vertical forearm (wrist at shoulder level) knock the gun away before the “BG” can pull the trigger and if you start the draw (from strong side waist, shoulder holsters were problematic) as you turn you can draw and fire before the “BG” can recover and get a shot off at you. This was with the “BG” expecting the move; it has to be done fast so there is momentum when you strike the “BGs” gun hand to drive it with some force for maximum travel to give you as much time as possible to do your draw and fire.

    I now carry a long combination wallet/checkbook in my left rear pocket (leaves the right rear pocket open for the BUG) so in a situation where I have the gun touching my back and I feel the situation is likely to end with me shot anyway, I would go for it. Go along with demand for the wallet, remove the wallet and move like I am going to hand it over the left shoulder, when the forearm is vertical, spin and while knocking the gun hand away try to slap the wallet across his face or throw it at his face while drawing and give him a half dozen rounds in the torso and if he is still vertical a few to the head.

  16. #30
    Member Array absit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Davenport, IA
    Posts
    110
    It would depend on range. I'd like to assume the bad guys don't know to keep distance, so they're up close and personal. This means he's in a very good position to be stabbed, slashed, and generally cut. If the range is as said, especially if the gun is up against your body, ESPECIALLY against your head, you stand a good chance of avoiding the first shot. By then, with proper training and practice, you could rush in to the bad guy for a 'hug", while doing so drawing a small (legal) tactical folder and hitting the right (or left if you're a lefty) kidney perfectly. His gun (now behind you, pointing away from you) is now open for a disarm, especially if you know your joint locks. Break his arm there, disarming him and neutralizing the threat. Do I recommend trying this? No. Could it work? Most definately.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. who has drawn their weapon?
    By texas in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: July 14th, 2009, 11:29 AM
  2. For Those That Have Drawn Their CCW
    By gwlammers in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: March 4th, 2009, 02:00 PM
  3. Could have drawn, but didn't
    By sasomers in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: June 5th, 2008, 07:03 PM
  4. Would You Draw On A Drawn Gun ??
    By RSSZ in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: May 25th, 2005, 08:05 AM

Search tags for this page

walking with drawn gun

Click on a term to search for related topics.