Loose Dog - For My Fellow Country Folk
This is a discussion on Loose Dog - For My Fellow Country Folk within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We had an actual situation here in my rural neighborhood when my neighbor shot another neighbor's dog that was harassing his horse and goats. It ...
April 28th, 2007 01:48 AM
We had an actual situation here in my rural neighborhood when my neighbor shot another neighbor's dog that was harassing his horse and goats. It caused a lot of bad blood. My dog is never off her leash on our walks. The guy whose dog was killed threatened to kill my dog which is always leashed. I told him to dig two graves, one for him and one for my dog. I always carry when Buffy and I go on our daily walks.
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM
April 28th, 2007 03:12 AM
I read a lot of posts here which seemed to be anti-dog. True, most of them were centered around Pit Bulls, but the GSD seems to have gotten somewhat of a bad rap due to its intelligence, reasoning abilities (yeah, they reason well), loyalty, ability to be fierce (as do retrievers!), and protective natures.
What I described was a real incident. When I was 10 we moved from Indianapolis to Wabash IN. After a short stay in an apartment my parents bought a very rural defunct farm. As my dad is an engineer for GM, we never got it running again.
One day I was taken for a trip to the pound. I ended up taking home a GSD (I later found she had just a touch of Collie - the vet guessed this due to certain coloration and fur that was not as short as a standard GSD's.)
We had neighbors down the road who tried to start a farm. Unfortunately they were better at drinking beer than tending their animals or fences, and one day their horse got out. It was running wild and headed straight for me on our property. Shep, still a puppy, came charging up, risking her life to nip at a terrified horse. I jumped into Dad's pickup and saw Shep bringing this horse around, and watched, amazed, as she put the horse back into the fence and guarded the opening until the neighbors could stir themselves to action.
A few years later the pigs got out. I just released Shep to go do her thing, and she did it quite well, taking the hogs out off our land (and out of the road!), and hearded them back to the neighbor's, where she kept them in a tight circle until the neighbors got home. I watched the whole thing, drinking coffee and holding a Winchester 9422 Magnum I had at the time. As hogs can be dangerous in their own rights, I didn't want a repeat of the horse incident. But Shep did her job well.
She didn't get shot for it, but I never got thanked for the use of my dog either.
She was so well behaved that she sat at attention when a couple farm boys decided to pick a fight with me. She was waiting for something to happen. Nothing did, and I credit her presence to that fact. She didn't threaten; she just sat there cool, calm and collected.
She also alerted us when the neighbor's house caught fire. It burnt down, which was sad. Ya' see, I had permission to hunt their woodlot for squirrel and rabbit but they gave up the farm after the house burnt, leaving barn cats out there to multiply and wipe out the game.
She always wore a collar, and kept an eye on my brother who was about three when we got her. She wouldn't let him wander into the road.
She could open gates btw ;)
Sadly, she died when I was away at college, having lived 11 years.
From what I've read here, there are some who would grossly misinterpret a dog's actions - those who don't know dogs well perhaps - who would shoot first and ask later. I was attempting to see how many actually thought along those lines.
We had a blizzard here this past winter. A female pit bull showed up - from where I don't know - but as we were snowed in, we couldn't do much. I don't like pits because of the way they look, but this was the friendliest dog I'd ever met, bar none. Honestly, I almost shot it when it showed up - I did haul the iron. Something kept me from the trigger though, and I began shouting "No!" each time it barked. Finally it submitted, tucked its tail as far as it would go, and meekly walked toward me. I petted it, and it licked my face in exhaultation. Remember, I'm the guy terrified of dog attacks. I gave this dog a chance though, and though I opted not to keep it, I found it a good home.
Sometimes second guessing can be a good thing. If it had been your hogs, you could have just driven up, patted Shep on the head, and she would have licked your hand. She would then have run home to tend to her "pack."
As it stood however, I called her home before the neighbors got back from wherever. It was getting dark. I did let her run back now and again when the hogs began to get out of the area she had chosen for them as it made her a bit antsy to have to sit and do nothing.
April 28th, 2007 03:21 AM
Joshua, that's why I said if he was herding the pigs, pay the owner. I may not be much for dogs, but if the dang thing isn't doing damage there's no reason to shoot.
"[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
They are left in full possession of them."
Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
April 28th, 2007 09:55 AM
Yes, I read that. While some here would likely shoot, it's probably because they don't know any better. Dang city folk! :D
We no longer live on farmland but rather in a very nice wooded area. I moved home because Dad came down with cancer, if that clarifies the situation.
A few years ago when I was visiting I did have to haul iron on a couple dogs bent on my destruction, and the other day I put three into a wild dog (a big problem around here) from my .22 when I was working with my retriever. There was a fence between us but that dog started stalking the neighbor's preteen kids. So it didn't suffer I took my retriever out to track it and the two that were with it. Sure enough, about 100yds later it was dead. The other two are still at large, and will be running the deer.
I feel very bad about having to take a dog's life, just because it's being a dog. I'm glad that with all the talk about "doing what's necessary" we can have a discussion where a dog is not fired upon as it's recognized as doing a good thing.
April 28th, 2007 01:15 PM
As you can tell by my alias, I live on a farm. I have had to eliminate many threats to live stock. Some have been foxes, raccoons, snakes, opossum, coyotes & even dogs............
Here is how I handled two different incidents.
The first one involved two dogs, four horses & a goat. One afternoon I heard the horses making a fuss along with dogs barking. These miscreant dogs were trying to attack a goat. The horse were surrounding the goat, trying to ward off the dogs. (good for the horses!). Since I knew the noise wasn't right when I heard it....I brought a rifle with me! It was an old Winchester 94 .30-30. I used it to dispatch the dogs.
The second occasion was near the end of deer hunting season (first week of January). As I was doing my morning chores I found a pile of duck feathers near one of the barn openings. I was carrying a pistol, so I drew it & went in. I found somebody's deer hound asleep next to the remains of the duck. I almost let him have it, but I noticed he was mostly skin & bones. He had not been eating well & under nourished. Since the duck was already dead, I didn't shot him. He was wearing a collar with a name on it.......I called the owner & made him come get the dog!
Moral of the story: It all depends on the situation, sometimes they are a danger, sometimes a nuisance & sometimes......no harm no fowl ...get it?....... No fowl (dead duck)........never mind, I never was much of a comedian.
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
April 28th, 2007 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith
Wow I'd BUY the dog
When outnumbered 2 to 1.
April 28th, 2007 03:02 PM
I thought that pigs were supposed to herd sheep, not be herded by sheepdogs.
Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith
April 28th, 2007 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by QKShooter
April 29th, 2007 09:55 PM
I live on a ranch and have had to shoot dogs that were attacking my livestock. I hate it - it doesn't matter what the situation is, when it's over, I feel like hell, because I'm a dog lover. For some reason, when city folks get tired of their pet, they dump it in the country because " farmers always need a dog". These dumped dogs pack-up, and do what is natural for them.
In the situation with the hogs, a single dog isn't likely to cause any damage unless he runs them into/thru a fence. Being a neighbor's dog, I'd get the hogs back in their pen, and have a little "come to Jesus" meeting with the owner. He needs to know that you cannot afford to loose livestock to any animal. It's very important to maintain good relations with your neighbors. More bad blood has resulted in disputes over animals than anything else....and take him some chops (ham is toooo expensive)
April 29th, 2007 10:17 PM
Yeah, the dog obviously has some drive to be a herder, and yes he's doin' what he was bred to to do rather well. However, chances are he is the root of the immediate problem and will have to be dealt with sooner or later. There's several choices available, one of them being talk the guy out of the dog and put some serious time and trouble into making a working dog out of him, however the chances of that panning out are pretty slim. Option two, chase the dog off, round up your livestock and give the neighbor a warning that next time his pup will probably go missing, and if it manages to land you with a vet bill before he goes "missing" he's legally liable. Third choice, tuck a .223 behind it's shoulder and be done with the situation untill said neihbor decides to get a new dog that has to be dealt with. YMMV
May 7th, 2007 10:27 PM
Just to clarify, the hogs were on our land first. I just let Shep take them home. I figured rather that than shoot them and cost someone money.
May 8th, 2007 12:47 AM
I agree 100% with Geezer...
I am not into shooting dogs, unless a human is being attacked or dogs are attacking livestock (Income).
I have never had to shoot a neighbors dog (or one of my own), however someone told one of my neighbors that I was the one who shot his dog.
Three of my dogs ended up disappearing over a period of 6 months.... Coincidence? You tell me.
I know I wouldn't be happy if someone shot my dog... but I would at least understand if my dog was harming a persons income or attacking people. But not everyone is understanding.
Just food for thought.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
May 8th, 2007 01:11 AM
So this was someone elses hogs, on your land, and your dog was herding em' up? That's a different ball of wax alltogether. If it was your hogs and someone else's dog on your land, I'd shoot the dog. My livestock that had broken out onto someone elses land, different story, apologize to the neighbor, round up the livestock and fix the fence.
Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith
May 8th, 2007 04:45 AM
I had a pack of dogs try to get under my fence to get my hogs. Bam! first dog went down and others bailed. Another got shot two doors down. SPCA came and caught the rest.
USN 78-82/USAF 82-93 Medically Retired
Desert Shield/Desert Storm
DAV Life Member
NRA Life Member
May 8th, 2007 06:26 AM
Originally Posted by blueyedevil
Yes, that's what happened. If I didn't make myself clear, then I do apologize.
The hogs ended up on my parents' property - I can't say "mine" because I was a minor - but they really started rootin' up the place. I grabbed my Winchester 9422mag to protect myself as I had heard of hogs turning on people, and I turned Shep, my GSD, loose, knowing that she knew how to herd. She practiced on everything.
The sticking point was, I let her take the hogs back and keep them there until the neighbors got home. They seemed attracted to something on my parents' property, and wouldn't stay away. I didn't really want to shoot one of my neighbor's hogs either, as I equate that with financial loss. Because she was on his land keeping them in a tight circle to keep them off my parents' land, I am fuzzy about the law there.
This was not the first time this had happened. The other time I almost got trampled by their horse and Shep saved me. Bad fence repairs on their part again.
Incidently, she was a good hunter with a very soft mouth. She would bring me live baby mice and retrieve shot game. Strange mix of character.
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