Why I will NEVER visit NYC again
This is a discussion on Why I will NEVER visit NYC again within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Reason 1: New York City Guns Laws
But that is just icing on the cake after Saturdays events.
Shall I begin, I suggest having a ...
May 6th, 2007 05:33 PM
Why I will NEVER visit NYC again
Reason 1: New York City Guns Laws
But that is just icing on the cake after Saturdays events.
Shall I begin, I suggest having a drink in hand this may get long. EDIT: its really damn long, food may help.
Planned a day trip to NYC with my parents, my aunt and her 3 sons. Our neighborhood set up a bus trip with a cheap fair for each person so we jumped on it. From VA our bus left at 5 AM so we could arrive at 10ish AM. Because of young children we had to endure Spiderman the movie and then the Disney channel. (God help me on both counts) Anyway, we arrive and enjoy our day checking out the Empire State building, Ground Zero (well, reconstruction zone) Trump Tower, Wall Street ETC... we covered about 80 blocks. We ate at the delis as we became hungry. I walked with my head on a swivel even more than I would if I was carrying. Giving my wallet the old pinky tap every once in a while to make sure it was still there. Everything was fine and dandy till we hit dinner time at 5:30. Thats when **** hit the fan.
We were the second table in on this crowded pizzeria. All 7 of us, with our food enjoying our Brooklyn pizza. I sat facing the doorway, as much as I hated to as some good looking women were now sitting behind me. Anyway, 5 minutes into eating a classic example of NYC's quality citizens strolls in. Scruffy black man, wearing black sweatshirt, black sweatpants and missing his front teeth. My awareness shot up, I knew he was not here for food he wanted change. The table separating us from the door has a man in his late 30s with his wife. The quality citizen walks over to them and mumbles what sounds like complete gibberish. The husband replies with "excuse me, I cant understand anything you just said." BG speaks again, this time you can hear him say "change." Husband tells him "no, I do not have any." Fair enough eh? Apparently not for this dip ****. He turns to the man's wife and asks for her change. Husband answers for her. BG gives some exchange of words and continues towards us.
Great, just want I want. To eat my dinner and have a bum asking for my money while I am in a restaurant. I look at the employees who are doing nothing but staring at each other and making pizza.
Model citizen come to our table on my aunt's side. Mumbles his gibberish and my aunt not knowing about what just took place says "Excuse me, I am eating dinner, please leave us alone." Man takes a step back and says "WHAT." My cousin repeats what was just said, "We don't have change for you, so leave us alone." This fine man now leans in to our table and says "Are you trying to step up son. I'll beat your ass." At this point, not only are my red flags waving, but my alarm is screaming in my ear. My youngest cousin who is still in high school stands up to refill his drink, as he does so BG turns to him and says "So you want to go *****." Walks around our table as my cousin fills his glass to my side and leans across me. At this point I am fed up, I slide my chair back and tell him he will receive nothing from us and to walk out the restaurant door. But this ******* takes it as a challenge. Then places his right hand behind his back like he is carrying something. Too bad I can see his hand and all he has done is made some weak form a fist. My aunt has taken off yelling for the manager and telling the employees to do something. The female cashier is the only one I can see, and she is clearly in a state of shock.
Now I have stood up, made it known that we are all family and if he even attempts to harm a single person at this table I will defend my family and myself. Enter the manager, who walks over slowly and just tries to calmly tell the man its time to leave. Obviously, his politeness is doing nothing as this man still thinks he can fight 5 men at one time. But now reenter the first man who was bugged. He has now become fed up with this man also. So we are now up to 6 men against this one drugged up fine work of quality NYC piece of trash. It has finally clicked in the BG's head. Maybe I wont make it out of this, he works his way to the door. Manger closes the door behind the man as he walks out and the manger walks away. Not too bright of a manager now is he. Door opens back up, BG reenters restaurant. At this point everyone in this place has stopped eating and is watching the event. Here comes bad move number 1. The first man he bugged yells at him "If you do not leave right now, I will put you in the hospital."
Uh Oh, now its a challenge to the BG. He realizes though that there are still 6 people waiting to defend each other if he tries anything. SO, what does he do. He opens up both doors and stands out side saying "If we were men we would come out and get our asses beat." Funny, I thought he was the one that ran? Now comes the clearest statement to be made, "Start walking son, you will not like this outcome." BG makes one more smart ass comment, but nobody can understand him. Something again about him beating our asses if we walked outside. He then starts walking to the left looking for whomever is his next victim. We thank the man for stepping up and he makes it very clear he was sick of him and wanted him out. We sit back down, I am still in red alert mode and finish our food. Some head to the bathroom and I walk outside to check out everything. Nobody in sight to fit his description so we head on our way.
We still had 2 hours to kill, the whole time we walked around I spun circles sweeping the area for anyone who fit his description. I felt like I was in a cheap Hollywood movie. Every street corner I would see someone wearing what the BG had on. You know those movies where the man disappears in a group of people and 3 of them all are dressed the same. Never saw him again, but I marked more people as potential targets in those 2 hours then I ever have in my life.
Needless to say, I believe we did well. It would have ended a lot sooner if I was carrying. Simple 3 steps back, right leg away and hand on holster would have been enough for him. He obviously knew this because that is what he was trying to pretend to have.
Lesson learned. Never going back to NYC until their firearms laws change. I did get a good chuckle out of their street signs that read "If you know of someone who shot at, wounded or killed an officer with a firearm please call this number......" But I thought that can't happen its a gun free zone?
May 6th, 2007 05:50 PM
Sounds like you did pretty much the best you could. Although a call to the police may have been warranted. As soon as he became aggitated and started threats/taunts, I would have had someone who wouldn't of been fighting, like your aunt or one of your parents call 911. Obviously you don't want to be doing anything to take your attention away from the BG.
Around campus there is a very large population of beggars, and it bothers me when the same ones ask me for change every day. But I absolutely hate it when they come in a restaurant while I am eating to ask for change, or even worse, some of my food. Not that I am really cold hearted, but its really rude to interrupt a stranger's meal to ask for some of it.
I had a layover in NYC on my spring break. On the approach to the airport I saw both the Statue of Liberty and Ground Zero from the airplane's window. Spent under an hour on the ground in the city. I feel that there is nothing else in that city I need to do in my lifetime.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
May 6th, 2007 06:13 PM
I had to chuckle while reading your post.
Welcome to the big apple!
In all reality it is the reaction that most normal people would have.
Only those that deal with something like Joe Snotrag on a regular basis would act otherwise.
They look for you to interact with them and take opposition as a challenge to scare you into giving up your change. Ignore them as much as feasibly possible, while keeping your safety in mind, and make it the managers problem. They are used to kicking them out. Most times they show up faster when you get up to leave without paying your bill when you are trying to get away from Mr. Snaggletooth.
I had a relative of his in Washington Square Park insist on selling me a pair of bent up, rusty, licked clean lens glasses while I was wearing my own. When turned down he pulled a knife a charged me. I was with 4 of my friends and he didn't last long.
Most of them really don't want to get hurt. They get beat up for no reason all the time because punks think it's fun.
NYC has a ton to offer if you have the funds and know where to look.
The bums know this too.
May 6th, 2007 06:22 PM
Well beggars are nothing new to me. I have been living just outside DC my whole life. If they want to ask for change do so outside. But I am in no mood to hand over change when I am eating.
May 6th, 2007 08:01 PM
Never, ever, ever go to NYC or DC.
Leave those places to the people who choose to live there.
They deserve those places.
"...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."
Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.
May 6th, 2007 09:26 PM
Under threat of force, I have never been in the mood to comply.
But I am in no mood to hand over change when I am eating.
For the average citizen, this is a prime example of what occurs when respect for others' right to live in peace takes a back seat to others' desire to take what's not theirs, beg for what's not theirs, threaten others for refusing to give up what they want to take ... be it their dignity, their peace of mind, their possessions or their lives. Much worse happens daily, because of this allowance for criminal behavior to have zero repercussions. It's why we carry. It's why we choose to live in places that honor and value the right of people to be secure in their persons and possessions.
Good job on protecting your family.
May 6th, 2007 09:29 PM
I cannot disagree. Well said!
Originally Posted by randytulsa2
May 6th, 2007 09:42 PM
I think one question most of us want to know, What were you carrying if you could not be packing your normal tools?
May 6th, 2007 10:56 PM
I work in NYC and really take exception!!
To the fact that the NYC and NY state governments have made NY a place where law-abiding people can be manhandled by homeless or criminal types.
You are lucky that it didn't come to a fight. The bad guy might have had NYC finest holding you guys up for hours.
I can't wait to move out of NY to another state where its citizens are not castrated.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
NRA Life Member
May 6th, 2007 11:01 PM
My Muay Thai training and the back side of a mag light. Along with a sound mind and the knowledge of every selfdefense/defensive training (handgun,fist,knife) I have read.
Originally Posted by wizardofgore
I did not bring my Benchmade with me, when I woke up and grabbed it, I had this awful feeling it would be illegal for me to have it so I left it at home.
May 7th, 2007 12:55 AM
They say this is supposed to be a safe citry to live in if you can afford it. This guy was probley out trying to scrounge up some rent money. my son is a truck driver and he refuses to go into NYC
May 7th, 2007 12:59 AM
Sorry to hear you had to deal with that mess.
Unfortunately, a good number of NYC panhandlers are very confrontational....I wouldn't be surprised if those are EDPs and/or (insert substance of choice)-heads.
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
May 7th, 2007 01:53 AM
A nut is a nut even no matter how crack it. I got into it with a crack head outside of Ford's theater while on leave, I was only 19 at the time and was in a war zone three days earlier. It wasnt the smartest thing I've done, but when I was done he was still a nut.
My point being is sometimes it aint worth it, but you got to do what you got to do.
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
May 7th, 2007 05:29 AM
My daughter and I were there last month for 8 days, she was ready to leave after 2 days. Refused to buy the I love NY shirt, because she hated it there, I bought one to do yard work in LOL.
USN 78-82/USAF 82-93 Medically Retired
Desert Shield/Desert Storm
DAV Life Member
NRA Life Member
May 7th, 2007 08:38 AM
As unpleasant as your experience was, it is not peculiar to NYC, you can have the same sort of thing happen in just about any city in our fair country. Proportianally, there are probably no more or less whacko's in NYC than in other cities.
....I kinda agree.....I've been approached more here in Tampa Bay by the indigent than while I lived in NYC/NJ.
Last edited by srfl; May 7th, 2007 at 10:40 AM.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell
By JimmyC4 in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
Last Post: October 23rd, 2009, 12:59 PM
By mf in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: July 18th, 2009, 09:23 PM
By gunnerdd2 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: December 30th, 2008, 02:19 AM
By rgreenpc in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
Last Post: December 31st, 2007, 11:49 PM
By PaulG in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
Last Post: June 11th, 2006, 12:30 PM