CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation - Page 2

CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation

This is a discussion on CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 0.02 I wear my kevlar ninja suit under my street clothes, at the first sign of trouble I tear my clothes off ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    I wear my kevlar ninja suit under my street clothes, at the first sign of trouble I tear my clothes off and start leaping around like a pinball gone crazy, taking out everyone in the room not prominently displaying a CCW 'deputy' badge. Then, once all threats are neutralized I grab my clothes, put them in my tactical wheelbarrow and truck on out of there before the first cop on the scene gets chance to thank me.

    YMMV.
    I thought it was just me. :)


  2. #17
    Member Array mikeyinokc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    The second thing a scumbag psychotic criminal will obtain (after his illegal guns & ammo) will be one of those arm bands.

    "Don't mind me. Just one of the good guys here." Then he's headed for a parking lot and his car.

    +1
    P.E.T.A = People eating tasty animals

    There is room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    Honestly, who actually thinks these things up??????? Once the festivities are over, my gun goes back to its holster ASAP ... Jeez, how about a dose of reality?
    Reality? It's this simple: with a BG within several feet of me, that he's currently prostrate can change in an instant, if he should believe himself capable of turning the tables on me. Disarm myself volutarily? That won't happen while I'm still breathing, at least until the cavalry arrives.

    While I've got a BG in tow, he's staying on the ground, face-down, as submissive and quiet as possible ... with my gun pointed just off-axis from his COM ... until the police arrive. I will not become a statistic of the BG's violence now matter how many inbound LEO's there are.

    That said, there are certainly steps to be taken upon arrival of the cavalry. Ideally, there's another GG who can assist as the welcoming committee. Otherwise, it's tricky and needs to be handled to balance the twin goals of (a) not having the tables turned by the BG and (b) not appearing a threat to the LEO's.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    I hesitate to bring this up but here is the one and only situation where I believe one of those hokey CCW badges may be of some value. I have talked with local police and they have found nothing illegal about having one, you would not be impersonating an officer according to them unless you were flashing it and posing in other ways as a cop to people. If you were to hold up this badge while covering the BG with your gun after a shooting it could very possibly show the cops responding that you are a good guy. Their misconception that this is a police badge would direct their attention to the real BG and off of you. Several officers have agreed with this scenario as being viable and not creating a problem for you so that is the only reason I bring it up. Take it for what it is worth.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
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  5. #20
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Havegunjoe, the hole in that theory is that BGs could start doing it, those badges are what? $30?
    If I'm at a shooting and the cops arrive before I holster my weapon I will probably have both hands on my gun when they first see me, promptly followed by both hands empty as my gun clanks on the ground, followed by both hands behind my head or whatever else they dictate. No room to put a hand in my pocket for my 'deputy' badge unless I want some perforations.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    Havegunjoe, the hole in that theory is that BGs could start doing it, those badges are what? $30?
    If I'm at a shooting and the cops arrive before I holster my weapon I will probably have both hands on my gun when they first see me, promptly followed by both hands empty as my gun clanks on the ground, followed by both hands behind my head or whatever else they dictate. No room to put a hand in my pocket for my 'deputy' badge unless I want some perforations.
    Assuming I have the BG spread eagle face down on the ground with me standing over them gun and badge in hands I don't see how they could also pull a badge. The badges I have seen are around $70 just F.Y.I.. I didn't say it was flawless but I think in limited situations it is viable. I have not given this a lot of thought but I can see, upon the arrival of the police, holstering my gun while holding up the badge. As I said it may divert attention from you to the creep on the ground.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spionen View Post
    Who thinks what things up? I asked what people thought so isn't it obvious who thought this up? Was this just a smart ass comment or did I misunderstand you?

    The information I was looking for so far has been excellent and of benefit to me. Thanks to those who have taken the time to really give good and well thought out comments.
    I will be brutally honest. I think the idea of carrying some special signal to ID yourself to the cops during an armed incident is ridiculous.

    Plain and simple.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Reality? It's this simple: with a BG within several feet of me, that he's currently prostrate can change in an instant, if he should believe himself capable of turning the tables on me. Disarm myself volutarily? That won't happen while I'm still breathing, at least until the cavalry arrives.

    While I've got a BG in tow, he's staying on the ground, face-down, as submissive and quiet as possible ... with my gun pointed just off-axis from his COM ... until the police arrive. I will not become a statistic of the BG's violence now matter how many inbound LEO's there are.

    That said, there are certainly steps to be taken upon arrival of the cavalry. Ideally, there's another GG who can assist as the welcoming committee. Otherwise, it's tricky and needs to be handled to balance the twin goals of (a) not having the tables turned by the BG and (b) not appearing a threat to the LEO's.
    Since when is re-holstering "disarming onself"?

    What are the chances of some BG going prone on you? Most likely they will run like hell or still try to fight. In the former case, reholster and call it good. In the latter, shoot until the threat ends.

    If a BG does surrender, Of course I will keep my weapon on him. NSS. In that most remote of remote possibilities, I will simply do what the cops say and let them sort it out.

    Most likely a BG lying prone on the ground means he's dead or severely wounded and out of the fight.

  9. #24
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    Some good thoughts. Luckily the majority of PD recognize me in my AO. If not I believe either cover the BG till PD arrives(if he is down) and possibly distance myself by backing up. space is your friend. Be ready to drop you gun and comply with PD orders.
    If possible, call 911 and describe what I am wearing. Sometimes dispatch will be able to convey it to PD.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    I hesitate to bring this up but here is the one and only situation where I believe one of those hokey CCW badges may be of some value. I have talked with local police and they have found nothing illegal about having one, you would not be impersonating an officer according to them unless you were flashing it and posing in other ways as a cop to people. If you were to hold up this badge while covering the BG with your gun after a shooting it could very possibly show the cops responding that you are a good guy. Their misconception that this is a police badge would direct their attention to the real BG and off of you. Several officers have agreed with this scenario as being viable and not creating a problem for you so that is the only reason I bring it up. Take it for what it is worth.
    Look Joe,

    That does have some merit and may, in very limited circumstances be useful if used as you describe...

    Massad Ayoob at one time even suggested it's use in limited scenario's. It can also let nervous bystanders see that you are in command of the situation before LEO's show up.

    Years ago, where I worked, I was issued a $100 Blackington two tone Gold and Silver paramedic badge with the MO. State Seal in the middle. I carried it for a few years for just such a use but haven't in years as it was just too much bother and heavy in my wallet.

    I have for a long time not felt the need for any kind of a "badge" for such uses... I think the amount of CCW in this country these days, it's not a totally foreign concept for LEO's to come across CCW's who have drawn their gun lawfully the way it was say 15-20 years ago.

    I just don't see a need to be hassled or accused of impersonating a LEO.

    When LEO arrives on scene, either have your gun put away or if it is more tactically sound to remain holding BG at gunpoint, then absolutely follow LEO's commands and directions. In under no circumstances argue with them.

    Follow their commands and everything will be fine!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #26
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    Guys, you don't need anything to ID yourself as a "good guy". If you are not wearing a uniform, you'd better be following directions. If you cant do that, we are going to have some problems.
    Wear an arm band, get a goofball badge or a girl scout sash, it will make no difference to me. Being a CCW holder means nothing until its time to do paperwork. You are not a deputy, you are not a officer of any kind. You just took a few hours of your time to attend a minimal "training" course and filled out an application.
    If you are involved in a incident, chances are you will be cuffed up and disarmed until things are sorted out, no matter what ID things you carry or if you know the secret handshake.

    There's your dose of reality.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Look Joe,

    That does have some merit and may, in very limited circumstances be useful if used as you describe...

    Massad Ayoob at one time even suggested it's use in limited scenario's. It can also let nervous bystanders see that you are in command of the situation before LEO's show up.

    Years ago, where I worked, I was issued a $100 Blackington two tone Gold and Silver paramedic badge with the MO. State Seal in the middle. I carried it for a few years for just such a use but haven't in years as it was just too much bother and heavy in my wallet.

    I have for a long time not felt the need for any kind of a "badge" for such uses... I think the amount of CCW in this country these days, it's not a totally foreign concept for LEO's to come across CCW's who have drawn their gun lawfully the way it was say 15-20 years ago.

    I just don't see a need to be hassled or accused of impersonating a LEO.

    When LEO arrives on scene, either have your gun put away or if it is more tactically sound to remain holding BG at gunpoint, then absolutely follow LEO's commands and directions. In under no circumstances argue with them.

    Follow their commands and everything will be fine!
    I personally have enough crap in my pockets so I would not be buying one of these badges. The original poster asked about the use of some kind of identifying item and I simply suggested this over his idea. It was a good question as good guys have been shot by overzealous LE from time to time because they could not identify the good guy. I also never said anything about not following their directions and commands or arguing with them. I also never said this badge makes anyone a junior G-Man in any way. I did say that IN VERY LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES this may be a viable option. That is all! One of the main objections to these badges has been that you may be accused of impersonating an officer which my sources say is unlikely. So if that was stopping someone I offer this information.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Crap... if the Cops come in I am surrendering, dropping the gun, whatever I need to do to surrender...

    None of this "yell CCW" stuff. Not even to the Perp. Whats that all about? Your not doing law enforcement. Your protecting your life! Your gun is out because your going to shoot him before he kills you. Period. Shoot him and be done with it. If you don't think you need to shoot then why is your gun out?

    And as to the Police... they not going to be listening. They want you to be no threat and immediately. You got a gun and there is a shooting. You better drop it and surrender fast and talk later. No talking the, just obey. You got no authority at that moment anyway with any carry permit. It just gave you the right to have the gun on you... and now your at a shooting with a gun... and your fair game.

    There is no magic cure for a situation like this. Just try and survive it. Thats your goal.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    Since when is re-holstering "disarming onself"? What are the chances of some BG going prone on you?
    A BG in my sights is going to the ground to await arrival of the cavalry, if he's going to remain anywhere near me. That's the deal. He's free to run away. But I won't remove the gun from my hand and won't remove the barrel from within a couple feet of his COM until the cavalry arrives. That's also part of the deal. All the better to avoid hangups on a second draw, etc.

    re Re-holstering. Since when? Since the dawn of holsters. Re-holstering takes the gun out of play. It adds a precious second or more to getting it back into the fight, should a quick perp decide to fight his way out. Pass, on that. To hold a BG for the cavalry, I'm within ~5-7yds or so. Thus, I will pay the amount of attention (at low-ready) that needs to be paid to ensure I remain safe until the time I can hand off that responsibility to the LEO's. It's called keeping your 'left' up. Anything less is simply asking for trouble from the BG.

    But that, itself, has its own risks. Inbound LEO's are at risk of seeing me and reacting too quickly, prior to legit. assessment is made. I'd like to think that's far less likely to occur than a BG turning on me if I were to prematurely re-holster. So, there it is.

    YMMV, as always. But, my 'mileage' has taught me that BG's can and do turn on you. BTDT. If I'm armed but have it holstered, frankly I'd prefer to avoid losing that to a BG and getting killed due to my own action.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    None of this "yell CCW" stuff. Not even to the Perp. Whats that all about?


    I wanted to say something but waited to see who else would find that hilarious.


    STOP!!! Or I'll CCW you!

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