CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation

CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation

This is a discussion on CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been thinking about this as I review in my mind what I would have done in some of the recent well publicized shooting ...

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Thread: CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation

  1. #1
    Member Array Spionen's Avatar
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    CCW Identification in a Tactical Situation

    I have been thinking about this as I review in my mind what I would have done in some of the recent well publicized shooting events. Iguess it's something we all do in our preparation for such an event if it were to happen to us.

    You sage and wise pros may have discussed this already but after searching, I can't find what I'm looking for on the topic.

    So...

    What do you think about carrying (in a weak side pocket) a neon reflective velcro attached arm band that you can quickly wrap around your arm as an identifying feature?

    This would of course only work well in a scenario such as the VT campus or mall shooting in Salt Lake City, Utah where the BG is roaming (albiet quickly) and you have time to call 911 (or have someone else call) and pass along the neon arm band info. Or... in a situation where you have taken the BG down and are waiting for LEO's to arrive and want to be sure they have some help identifying who is who.

    Is this a good idea but maybe difficult to implement with mass quantities of adrenalin pumping, a bad idea or does it have some merit?

    Least someone misunderstand me... I'm not even advocating taking the time to attach an arm band before drawing on a BG in a situation where speed is of the essence. That just wouldn't even be a consideration in that situation.
    Semper Paratus (Always Ready)



  2. #2
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    It does have some merit I think, however... in a crisis situation your best bet when LEO arrives on scene is to do EXACTLY as they say! OBEY ALL COMMANDS!

    They will not shoot you without giving you some sort of a command unless you are actively shooting when they arrive on scene.

    I have found that often times, all the information you give to the dispatchers does not get transmitted to responding officers. You can not rely on others you ask to call 911 for you to give the correct details as well.

    Police who will respond will be looking for a "person with a gun", when they see one, they will challenge them and give them commands.

    You can verbally interact with them, but remember, whether you are ccw holder, good guy or whatever, if you have a gun in your hand when they arrive, they will have you drop your gun. I would do what they say, very slowly, as if YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!

    Now in regards to a colored arm band or something... The New York City Police Dept. has somewhere in the neighborhood of 40,000 police officers and I'm not sure how many Port Authority Police and Transit Authority Police have but suffice it to say, that not every cop knows every other cop in that town. NYPD has for years used a method of having their "undercover officers" wear a certain identifying "color of the day" as an article of clothing or whatever. That "color of the day" is supposed to be transmitted to all uniformed officers during their "role call" in an attempt to avoid accidental shootings of UC Officers who can dress the part very well.

    I can remember my dad telling me one time when he was working in NYC one night he was walking down the street and saw what he believed with his untrained eye to be two "homeless bums" beating the crap out of some guy on the sidewalk. A few moments later a marked NYPD patrol car screeched to a halt in front of them and assisted the "two undercover cops" effect their arrest and place the suspect in their patrol car.

    My dad being from Missouri casually walked up to the "two bums" after they clearly knew the uniformed cops and asked them what the guy did... They responded "He was a rapist who failed to appear in court after being out on bond and they've been looking for him since he had been ID'd in another rape while he was out!" So you never know...

    I don't know if they still use that method of ID for undercover cops these days or not, but I would assume they would almost have to have some method of keeping the uniformed cops from shooting the undercovers.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #3
    Member Array Ranger's Avatar
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    The second thing a scumbag psychotic criminal will obtain (after his illegal guns & ammo) will be one of those arm bands.

    "Don't mind me. Just one of the good guys here." Then he's headed for a parking lot and his car.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Ayoob's recommendation is to not be standing with a gun in hand as the first thing responding LEO's see, and to work with another "victim" nearby to act as the welcoming committee for the responding LEO's. This person can describe the basic situation, identify you (the GG), etc. All of this can be accomplished while you're not in directly line of fire. Not that this can be achieved in all situations, but it's a lot better than being caught standing up with a gun pointed at someone, since the appearances might well get you killed.

    If the choice is available, that's preferable (for me). If not, then maintaining some cover is going to be critical, while the responding officers arrive and initially assess the situation. At which point, I would maintain good distance from the BG and respond to all commands. I'll get jumped on; I'll get cuffed; and once it's known I'm the GG, by virtue of my CHL, my actions, my story, and witness accounts, I'll be released. Better than getting dropped with 24 holes in my body, as a result of pulling a "Sayers" (aka getting my back up) over the cautious initial steps being made by the LEO's to assert control over a "man with a gun" (me).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    I also used to think it would be helpful to carry some visible ID; not any more.

    Just watch were you point the muzzle of your firearm when you face and identify threats - one may be a police officer doing the same and if he sees you pointing a firearm at him, your chances of survival go down quite a bit.

    Carrying a weapons ID visibly on you serves of little purpose. The responding officer doesn't know if you are in fact involved in the crime being commited and will most likely detain you unless he feels certain you are not an involved party - he'll find your permit anyways when you are detained; besides the only thing he'll be looking at when he meets you is the firearm in your hands.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    In my mind, there are 2 issues here - Identification to LE (which has been covered pretty well), and identification to other CCW'ers.

    In either case, I hope that my actions will make it clear that I'm not the shooter. There are very few situations that would result in me clearing rooms with my gun in hand, but if I am mistaken for the shooter by LE or another armed citizen, I can only hope that they have enough good judgement not to shoot me if I'm not actively shooting an unarmed victim.

    As far as arm bands or something, I don't really think that would be an effective solution. If it was well known enough to be useful, BG's would imitate it, just like they impersonate cops to break into people's houses.

    JMI, but the best thing to do in an active shooter situation is to stay down, keep your weapon hidden, and if you have to use it, make sure it goes back into hiding as soon as possible if LE isn't immediately on scene.

  7. #7
    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    I agree...once the officers are on scene the weapon is stowed and they take over, unless of course I have drawn on the threat and maybe am approached from behind. Then it's hands up, announce I am a CCW permit holder and wait/ask for commands, which would then be followed slowly.

    No armbands for me....what if more than one BG is roaming around, I'd be advertising my gun. Good idea at first but.....nah.

    Keep in mind all of this is hypothetical and I hope I would react as calmly as I think. Adrenaline is a powerful drug.

  8. #8
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    I have determined that IF I HAVE TIME and ONLY IF I HAVE TIME.. I will not only draw my gun (first) but I'll also take out permit. I will hold it (if I have to in my TEETH or hand or give to someone beside or just have it around) and when the police enter and start barking commands, I will drop my gun and hold up my ID. I believe it would show instant compliance and willingness to cooperate and establish that I am legally carrying a gun. Sure, I'll still get tackled, cuffed and hauled in for questioning, but first establishing the fact that I'm a CCW holder and THAT is why I have a gun will go a long way in easing my transition from shooter to citizen defending herself.

  9. #9
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    I have considered getting some sort of neck-wallet type of thing to keep my permit in (but out of sight under my shirt unless I need it), so that it is handy to show and easy to get to without making a motion that could look like I'm reaching for a holster. Something like on this page...
    http://travelgizmos.com/TravelAccess...sportCases.htm

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    I wear my kevlar ninja suit under my street clothes, at the first sign of trouble I tear my clothes off and start leaping around like a pinball gone crazy, taking out everyone in the room not prominently displaying a CCW 'deputy' badge. Then, once all threats are neutralized I grab my clothes, put them in my tactical wheelbarrow and truck on out of there before the first cop on the scene gets chance to thank me.

    YMMV.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Finally, a foolproof plan!!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Honestly, who actually thinks these things up???????

    Once the festivities are over, my gun goes back to its holster ASAP and gets covered up by whatever garment was covering it before.

    If the cops get there before that, I will drop my weapon and do whatever the cops need me to do to secure the scene. I will say nothing and do nothing unless asked and/or commanded by the cops until things get sorted out.

    Jeez, how about a dose of reality?

  13. #13
    Member Array ShadeAngel's Avatar
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    Once the festivities are over, my gun goes back to its holster ASAP and gets covered up by whatever garment was covering it before.
    Actually I was taught this is one of the biggest mistakes you can make, letting your guard down early.

    Should I have to use my weapon (i.e. actually shoot) it stays in my hand and pointed at the BG with my head on a swivel looking for any other threats... until the police arrive and tell me to put my weapon down.

    Of course it depends on the exact situation but that's my basic rule.

    YMMV

    In the mean time though I am going to see if I can find one of those Kevlar ninja suits... gotta link 0.02?
    "You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"

  14. #14
    Member Array Spionen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    Honestly, who actually thinks these things up???????

    Once the festivities are over, my gun goes back to its holster ASAP and gets covered up by whatever garment was covering it before.

    If the cops get there before that, I will drop my weapon and do whatever the cops need me to do to secure the scene. I will say nothing and do nothing unless asked and/or commanded by the cops until things get sorted out.

    Jeez, how about a dose of reality?
    Who thinks what things up? I asked what people thought so isn't it obvious who thought this up? Was this just a smart ass comment or did I misunderstand you?

    The information I was looking for so far has been excellent and of benefit to me. Thanks to those who have taken the time to really give good and well thought out comments.
    Semper Paratus (Always Ready)


  15. #15
    Member Array OfClanMcnab's Avatar
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    I've thought about this before, and if I was forced to draw my gun in a situation like this, I would be shouting "Drop your weapon! CCW!" repeatedly until the BG either dropped his weapon or I had to start shooting. This helps accomplish a few things. 1) It satisfies any legal requirements to give the BG a chance to surrender, 2) notifies surrounding citizens that an 'incident' is occurring and they need to take cover, and 3) lets nearby citizens (and also potential CCWs and UC LEO) know you are the good guy. Also, by notifiying surrounding citizens that an incident is occurring, you also have more witnesses to help you out in court. People will hear your shouts, turn around and hopefully see what is going on. Whereas, if the first thing they hear is gunfire, chances are good they will not have a clue what just happened.

    Of course, not every situation will allow you to get off a warning first; you may have to shoot immediately, but shouting CCW to identify yourself at some point, either before or after the shooting, is a good idea.

    And as soon as I see police, if my gun is in hand, I will immediately place it down on the ground (making sure the muzzle never faces the police), and back away from the gun with my hands in plain sight.

    Following those rules should help in any situation.
    Last edited by OfClanMcnab; May 16th, 2007 at 01:47 PM. Reason: grammar and clarification

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