New girlfriend (w/bi-polar ex)

This is a discussion on New girlfriend (w/bi-polar ex) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Missouri has what's called a 96 Hour Involuntary Mental Health Hold , where essentially, LEO's, ER Staff, EMS folks will petitions the state to have ...

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  1. #46
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    Missouri has what's called a 96 Hour Involuntary Mental Health Hold, where essentially, LEO's, ER Staff, EMS folks will petitions the state to have someone held against their will for up to 96 hours in a psychiatric facility for an evaluation. We do this All The Time.

    However... the twist is... just because they go in, (under court order) doesn't mean they are staying for 96 hours. Often times they are released after only 6 or 8 hours. If a psychiatrist deems they are not a threat they are released.

    Psychiatric beds in "every" state are at a premium! Basically the goal is to get the patients out of the in-patient hospital setting as quickly as possible, therefore, anyone who can behave themselves through a basic psych evaluation, often times walk from those facilities within a couple of hours.

    Look at the V-Tech case with Cho... He had been ordered by a judge for a psychiatric evaluation... Cho essentially talked the judge into allowing him to handle it on an "Out-Patient" basis instead of being "Involuntarily" committed, and then Cho failed to show up for his court mandated but out-patient psychiatric evaluation. He just didn't go... and the rest my friends... Is History!
    Last edited by Bark'n; May 25th, 2007 at 09:39 AM.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    One final word:
    1) Don't do stupid things
    2) Don't hangout with stupid people
    3) Don't go"stupid places" (aka the sleeping dragon's mouth)

    If you're gonna do it, leave your gun in the safe, until things stabilize, and you're sure of exactly who is in charge of the three-way interpersonal dynamics. This is one of the few instances where I would say your weapon could easily be taken and used against you. You never know what's going on in another person's head.

  4. #48
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Go find another woman before you end up dead or in jail.

  5. #49
    Member Array Joel's Avatar
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    Guess again...

    You are the one bringing a gun into the equation with your assertion that I have the right to defend myself, and I am not going to be disarmed.
    Sololucky... you are wrong. You WILL be disarmed.

    No offense intended, but we care ABOUT YOU. You WILL most certainly be disarmed. One of two situations will occur:

    1)You will be disarmed, disrobed of your clothing, personal effects and shoelaces and given a new State issued uniform for long term use.... or,

    1)You will be disarmed, cleaned up real good, dressed in your favorite black communion suit and laid out in a new wooden box for viewing by your loved ones.
    Last edited by Joel; May 25th, 2007 at 08:12 PM. Reason: ..

  6. #50
    Member Array Joel's Avatar
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    No tough guys in lockup

    Let me add this... (just my personal opinion and 2-cents ~ may be worth less than that to you)

    THERE ARE NO TOUGH GUYS IN PRISON (just living dead who belong to rat packs) Thinking that you are reasonably strong, trained in some martial arts or hand-to-hand, and a nice guy won't mean squat when EIGHT three-hundred-pound-monkeys come to "visit" you in your 6x10 cell. "Taking out the first one" won't cut it, there are seven more and.... there's gonna be PLENTY OF TOMORROWS.

    Survival (and it's just that) occurs only by aligning yourself with others, and sometimes that costs more than you think.

    Bottom line: RUN as fast as you can from this no-win situation. Plenty here have given you sage advice... I would recommend that you take it. The day of the Lone Ranger are over kid. This is gonna get ugly real fast. If you ignore intelligent advice, then strap yourself in for a ride that you didn't expect.

  7. #51
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    I have considered one upside to Solo's current situation, however, and tragically, it only seems to be an upside for his girlfriend.

    (Scenario 1) Sololucky has an encounter which he ends up killing his girlfriends ex-husband and goes to prison for long time because he wasn't able to claim self defense. The reason he can't claim self defense is because "he knowing placed himself in a situation where he knew beforehand could escalate into a killing situation" and even discussed it in a public gun forum.

    Girlfriend and children are now free to move on to new relationship with another man totally unencumbered by having an ex-husband with a mental disorder in her life ever again and jealous ex-boyfriend is in prison for cold bloodedly killing her childrens father. A win/win situation for the girlfriend and kids.

    (Scenario 2) Ex-husband with known mental problems and in a frame of mind detached from reality, see's new boyfriend (Sololucky) as the trouble maker which can take his children away from him and the one obstacle keeping him from reconciling with his ex-wife and ends up killing Sololucky.

    Ex-husband goes to prison for life or at least a very long time in pre-meditated murder and ex-wife is free to move on to be in a new relationship totally unencumbered with the baggage from her past. With ex-husband permanently out of the picture, and Sololucky well... he was just SOLO-UNLUCKY. Woman and kids are again in a win/win situation.

    I sure hope she hasn't already thought of this! ...or maybe she has?

    I do hope Sololucky will one day post the outcome to all this, as it can definitely be a good learning experience for all of us!
    Last edited by Bark'n; May 26th, 2007 at 08:35 AM.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #52
    Member Array BILLYKALDRICH's Avatar
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    Thumbs down too many fish in the sea

    like the old song says "there are short ones fine ones tall ones kind ones too many fish in the sea"
    I have been there and my emotional dumb ass could not think straight. like the posters above have said it maybe best to through this one back in the sea.She comes with too much baggage.Sorry sad but true.Your heart and your head are 18 inches apart they are not in communication with each other.
    RVN 68-69 101st Abn. Div. D Co. 101st Avn. Bn.

  9. #53
    Member Array DizTbone's Avatar
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    UGH! Solo...tough situation......

    I'm not a licensed counselor, but I am a hospital chaplain....and I married a woman with a "crazy" ex-husband. (Yes...she is soon to be my ex-wife, too...)

    I applaud you for wanting to stand by someone who is in a tough spot. However, Pitmaster's concerns bring the past all too clearly to mind.

    May I suggest carefully examining your own motivations in this matter?

    Here's why: I found some years ago that I had a tendency to want to "rescue"or feel that I could "rescue" others from their bad situations. I'm a big, strong guy...physically and emotionally...and I was sure I could do it. Then...I started dating this great girl with thousands of problems...including the ex. I could handle it. I could help her out of the hole and into a healthy and whole life filled with joy and happiness. Then we married.

    She didn't want to pull herself out of the hole...at least not completely. UH OH!

    Me? I fought for a good life for her...one that she wasn't working for...

    The result: I am now the "father" that her father wasn't. She will soon be my ex-wife.

    I don't know what your experience will be, but the lesson for me has proven invaluable in life and in work: I can't save anyone. I can provide encouragement and support (not coercion!!!!) in difficult times. That's it. I can be sad when I journey with others through bad times...but I can never let myself be destroyed by them or their situations. I can show them a way to healing, coping, or...whatever... but only the person(s) with whom I am working can take the steps they need to take.

    So, I encourage to take a deep breath and examine your own motivations and feelings in this situation. Then, step back and try to take a long look at the entire situation and possible outcomes.

    It's your decision. I wish you well on whatever path you choose.

    Knights in shining armor fair better in medieval legend than in real life.

    Michael
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  10. #54
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I have considered one upside to Solo's current situation, however, and tragically, it only seems to be an upside for his girlfriend.

    (Scenario 1) Sololucky has an encounter which he ends up killing his girlfriends ex-husband and goes to prison for long time because he wasn't able to claim self defense. The reason he can't claim self defense is because "he knowing placed himself in a situation where he knew beforehand could escalate into a killing situation" and even discussed it in a public gun forum.
    Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that this does not actually fit the definition of "knowingly placing himself in a situation." The circumstances for are usually for a more immediate situation. In this instance, the threat is not what might be termed "immediate."

    And in a situation like this, self-defense can still be claimed.

    But again, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

    To the rest of the situation. I agree that crazy people and guns don't mix well. However, in my opinion, that only applies to the idea of a crazy person having a gun. In the event of a non-crazy person, who might potentially be faced with a crazy person, then the non-crazy person should most definitely have a gun for self-defense. It MIGHT be their only means of staying alive.

    And I would NEVER go around unarmed, while this situation exists. But then I don't go unarmed under any situation....as long as I have control.

  11. #55
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    True... He can argue his defense any way he wishes.... No doubt about that.... I've seen cases go either way.

    I would recommend going to the law library and researching cases in which people who had a gun and then knowing they had a gun, suspected a confrontation was going to end in death.

    Solo's case is not that of involving a total stranger... He is knowing placing himself in the middle of a domestic situation with a mentally unstable patient and that persons ex-wife. He is not a LEO charged with dealing with their domestic issues.

    Sure he can attempt to argue it as self defense. I kind of figure it won't go his way, which is why I Strongly Recommended that he consults with not only a reputable defense attorney, but his local prosecutor as well.

    Some how, I feel that he will do neither because he won't like the advice they give him.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  12. #56
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Naturally, it will depend on Ohio's law, in that regard. Still, I think he might make the argument that, the gun is his last defense. Having put himself in a position where he might be attacked, he'd be foolish to NOT carry his pistol. And if a dangerous encounter should happen, as long as he tries to avoid shooting the ex, and resorts to his pistol only as a last resort, he should be able to claim self-defense, without too much trouble.

    As long as HE doesn't go after the ex, and the ex comes after him, that is the key to the self-defense claim.

    Still, he should be 110% sure about the woman's stand on this issue. I've seen some weird results come about, and the woman ended up going with the ex, and dumping her erstwhile defender.

  13. #57
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    Al,..

    You do have a good point... and it might work out... That's just a card game I wouldn't play at all.

    What 's the old saying? There's no Nook%$ worth spending time in prison over....

    Check out the other posts... I don't think anyone else would play those odds either.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Al,..

    You do have a good point... and it might work out... That's just a card game I wouldn't play at all.

    What 's the old saying? There's no Nook%$ worth spending time in prison over....

    Check out the other posts... I don't think anyone else would play those odds either.
    I'm sure most of us would not. However, we are not currently in Solo's shoes. All we can really do is offer our advice. Should anyone of us, find ourselves in a similar situation, I am almost certain, we will have the same attitude, regardless what we say here, now. We have no idea of the "investment" that Solo has in this. And I dare say, even he doesn't realize how much he may have invested in his relationship with the erstwhile "victim."

    Let's face it, whenever we become "romantically" entangled, most of us "guys" tend to think with the "other" head, and not the one with the brains. It's ok. It's human nature.

    But ALL of us need to consider this possible scenario from our own personal point of view. AND, you need to look at it from the angle of "what if..." And try not to be too harsh, on Solo, or our selves!

  15. #59
    Member Array DizTbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe View Post
    I'm sure most of us would not. However, we are not currently in Solo's shoes. .....

    Let's face it, whenever we become "romantically" entangled, most of us "guys" tend to think with the "other" head, and not the one with the brains. It's ok. It's human nature.

    But ALL of us need to consider this possible scenario from our own personal point of view. AND, you need to look at it from the angle of "what if..." And try not to be too harsh, on Solo, or our selves!
    Well said!!!!

    Solo... My advice not withstanding.... I know that I DON'T know a lot about your situation. I don't know if you're a religious man, but, if ya don't mind, I keep you and the lady/children in question in my prayers.

    Michael
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  16. #60
    Senior Member Array sheepdog's Avatar
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    Wow, you have some excellent professional advice here! Mostly the "run away" advice. Nothing I can add except I was involved with a woman with a particular mental illness and connection with her ex. I was young, she was stunning, and I figured out later that I was a "rescue" type. After overcoming hormones, which was TOUGH, I got out. Her next boyfriend was nearly killed-crippled for life-by the ex, despite the fact that he was armed knew the guy was crazy. And to this day, I think SHE helped the deal up. Man, I gotta write that story some day.
    This is very bad mocus.
    What Would Gumby Do?

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