New girlfriend (w/bi-polar ex)

This is a discussion on New girlfriend (w/bi-polar ex) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In Arizona, it seems he would not be justified in using deadly force: 13-417. Necessity defense A. Conduct that would otherwise constitute an offense is ...

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  1. #61
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    In Arizona, it seems he would not be justified in using deadly force:


    13-417. Necessity defense

    A. Conduct that would otherwise constitute an offense is justified if a reasonable person was compelled to engage in the proscribed conduct and the person had no reasonable alternative to avoid imminent public or private injury greater than the injury that might reasonably result from the person's own conduct.

    B. An accused person may not assert the defense under subsection A if the person intentionally, knowingly or recklessly placed himself in the situation in which it was probable that the person would have to engage in the proscribed conduct.

    C. An accused person may not assert the defense under subsection A for offenses involving homicide or serious physical injury.

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Solo,
    I've never seen a Jerry Springer episode end on a good note for anybody. Get out, you don't need this.

    A wise man once said to me, "Girls are a dime a dozen, and it looks to me like you have a pocketful of dimes."
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  4. #63
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    In Arizona, it seems he would not be justified in using deadly force:


    13-417. Necessity defense

    A. Conduct that would otherwise constitute an offense is justified if a reasonable person was compelled to engage in the proscribed conduct and the person had no reasonable alternative to avoid imminent public or private injury greater than the injury that might reasonably result from the person's own conduct.

    B. An accused person may not assert the defense under subsection A if the person intentionally, knowingly or recklessly placed himself in the situation in which it was probable that the person would have to engage in the proscribed conduct.

    C. An accused person may not assert the defense under subsection A for offenses involving homicide or serious physical injury.

    Arizona is now a castle doctrine state. You do not have to worry about reasonable alternatives :


    Arizona Governor Napolitano Signs Castle Doctrine Legislation Into Law!

    Friday, April 28, 2006

    Senate Bill 1145, the "Castle Doctrine" legislation sponsored by Senator Timothy Bee (D-30) and Representative Jonathan Paton (R-30), was signed by Governor Janet Napolitano Monday, April 24.

    Senate Bill 1145 has two components. One is Castle Doctrine, which presumes you are justified in the use of force if you believe you are in danger of serious bodily harm or death within your home or occupied vehicle. The second and most significant component is the return of the burden of proof in self-defense cases to the state, so law-abiding citizens who are forced to actually use their firearms or other means of protection for self-defense will not be wrongfully imprisoned or financially devastated by costs associated with their legal defense. They will once again be presumed innocent – consistent with the American system of justice.

    However he would be screwed by this:

    2. The person against whom the physical force or deadly physical force was used is the parent or grandparent, or has legal custody or guardianship, of a child or grandchild sought to be removed from the dwelling, residence or occupied motor vehicle.

    http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....ls/sb1145p.htm

  5. #64
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update. I thought Napolitano vetoed everything?

    I am not sure that the clarification supercedes 13-417. He is knowingly putting himself in situation that might probably result in a confrontation.

    Further, 1145 seems to pertain only to your own residence, not someone else's. And, you are exactly correct that the prosecutor would use (2.).

    It is obvious that it is never obvious exactly what will confront someone in the bureaucracy of the judicial system. Better to not have the slightest doubt if one can avoid the situation from the outset.

    I absolutely agree with most of the posters that Solo would be best served by avoiding this potentially dangerous and deadly environment.

  6. #65
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    By the way, regarding 1145, I did not read anything new that was not previously covered by the existing
    13-4xx laws.

    There is not a necessity to retreat in any case and the justifiable use of deadly force is immune from civil liability.

    Can you help with some insight as to what 1145 was trying to accomplish?

  7. #66
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    By the way, regarding 1145, I did not read anything new that was not previously covered by the existing
    13-4xx laws.

    There is not a necessity to retreat in any case and the justifiable use of deadly force is immune from civil liability.

    Can you help with some insight as to what 1145 was trying to accomplish?

  8. #67
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    By the way, regarding 1145, I did not read anything new that was not previously covered by the existing
    13-4xx laws.

    There is not a necessity to retreat in any case and the justifiable use of deadly force is immune from civil liability.

    Can you help with some insight as to what 1145 was trying to accomplish?
    I think it covers you from legal action and puts the burden on the state to prevent you from having to endure undue time in jail/bail/lawyers fees if you do have to defend yourself. I too was surprised when good ol "pat" signed this bill as well

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruertar View Post

    ...Her ex-husband is her problem and she needs to fix it before she can be in a healthy relationship with someone else.
    This one sentence is the most well stated fact that I have ever read on any forum, on this type of matter. I seriously suggest you read, re-read, and re-read this sentence again.

    At 37yrs old, I have twice put my family (Parents and Siblings) in harms way for a friend. It is not worth it. I commend your thoughts on "not leaving a friend when help is needed" (paraphrase). However, more than once you have referred to your 'girlfriend' as a friend. To be quite honest with you... it's time to leave.

    I wish you well with any decision you make, but I feel a lot of good advice has been offered on this thread and I hope you take it.

    JMHO.
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  10. #69
    Member Array samb's Avatar
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    I have the strongest feeling that this guy is heading for disaster. He doesn't seem to have a clue.

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I admit, I did not read every post on this thread but, you must be aware of something.
    A person with his ailment, when in the midst of a bi-polar rage may not feel the effect of pepper spray at all. Also, they can soak up amazing number of rounds to the torso and keep on trying to kill the person they are fixated on. Shooting for the pelvis is advisable in situations such as this as it is the cross support for the skeleton and if it is shattered they go down no matter what.

    Be real sure you are ready to kill this guy for this woman because it is a very, very real possibility in your situation. Is she "the one" or just someone you have feelings for. Only you can make that determination.

    Good luck to you my friend. You are the person I am really afraid for in this.
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  12. #71
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I think it's time to close this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinokrk View Post
    Let's try to be adults here. This man has a close friend who is in a s...y position, he wants to do the right thing. Maybe if you were in the same situation you'd be asking the same thing.

    Grow up.
    You're right...maybe. I shouldn't have said that, but there's not much more to be said here or on the Flashbang thread. I'll delete my last post.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #72
    Member Array jbailey's Avatar
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    Lots of good advice in all the above BUT...

    BUT -

    If after all is said and done, you decide this relationship is worth the work and risk, you and your new partner would be wise to pull up stakes and put a LOT of real estate between you and the ex-husband. Coast to coast wouldn't be too much.

    To start fresh, you and she will have to realize that when dealing with unstable psyches, there may be no ability to reason with them - total separation is the only alternative, IMHO.

    Maybe the kids/ex wife want to see the ex have visitation rights, or maybe one or some of the kids would rather live w/dad, I don't know, either case introduces opportunity for disaster if the ex is both bipolar and posessive-compulsive.

    I do know this - I once had a relationship with an abused spouse. One of her daughters (also abused) called her dad and told him her mom was involved with me, gave him everything but my shoe size.
    This led to a very unpleasant situation that could easily have led to a tragic end. THANK GOD it didn't - but I know things would have been better for both of us if I had not been involved. She was taking SD classes, and learning to use a gun on her own. the ex didn't bother her after he discovered that. I did finally do the right thing and get out of the picture

    When hormones and love is involved it is very difficult to think objectively - but someone's life may depend on it.

    God Bless and Good Luck!!

    Jim

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    But does castle doctorine work if it is not his residence ? Like at the girlfriends home ??

    This is a pretty crappy situation. If there is the threat, help HER get a CCW.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    I guess we should wait to hear from Sololucky....and see what then next step is....otherwise, the horse is dead...IMO

  16. #75
    Senior Member Array Pitmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I guess we should wait to hear from Sololucky....and see what then next step is....otherwise, the horse is dead...IMO
    True.

    There's a chance he might be the horse and no one would know it.
    Pitmaster

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