This is a discussion on You are the "Shoplifter" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MattLarson And conversely, if you are the completely innocent, lawfully armed civilian, this unwarranted physical assault, coupled with a potentially unqualified person ...
I believe in Texas, not only must they have seen you take the item, but you must attempt to leave the store and in between you taking the item and leaving, they must have you under contionuous unbroken surveillance.
If they find nothing when you leave, they obviously did not follow the above and would be in some trouble.
All said though, I would say comply with the detention, call LEO but no search.
almost as much as the no knock warrant executions.
All the LP "veterans", all you are doing is putting your arse out on the line to protect the bottom line of some corporate entity. Well done. Feel good about what you are doing? Happy to risk injury/death/lawsuits to keep the bottomline black and not red???
I will remain as polite as possible without abdicating my rights. I cannot control the outcome, only my actions. The instant that someone gets grabby with me against my will, we go from zero to thermonuclear in a heartbeat. I'm in survival mode, the LP "veteran" is in survival mode and all we have is who is more/better trained. Game on. Someone will be incapacitated, that's about the only thing I can guarantee.
And all this because an incompetent store management/cashier didn't turn off that damn beeping thing when I leave the store. I estimate that 50% of every time I leave the store I have to turn around to have my bag checked because some lame incompenent goober cannot deactivate the security.
Just make sure you don't run in to this guy
great post gets the wheels spinning
Kimber S/S tle pro
While I understand folks' reluctance to tolerate any sort of hands on restraint or, worse, being searched and/or relieved of their weapon, it seems to me that it would be pretty hard to justify anything approaching "survival mode" with a duly constituted security guard, regardless of their stupidity. It's a pretty big stretch to be able to successfully claim being in any real danger, certainly not enough to justify any action on your part. Regardless of the legal technicalities that might be in my favor, I guess I'd pretty much do what they demanded within reason and let my lawyer deal with it later.
Well just as many of you have stated hands on is a no-no unless they are a LEO. Then I would advise him of the firearm prior to his actual hands on. If by some chance a store employee does attempt I would simply keep distance and attempt to deescelate the situtation as much as possible. Turning the firearm over to a non LEO would not happen.
Improvise, Adapt, Modify, and Overcome
I'm a law-abiding citizen, wealthy, and have some political pull. I'm not handing over my weapons to some minimum-wage flunky because he thinks I'm stealing some $3.00 piece of imported junk his store sells. I'm not going to submit to being handcuffed, or led off out of public view either...
We can politely wait for a real law enforcement officer to show up.
Lucky me, my lawyer is usually standing right next to me, and she is generally armed as well :-)Regardless of the legal technicalities that might be in my favor, I guess I'd pretty much do what they demanded within reason and let my lawyer deal with it later.
It just gets to me that there are people on this forum that would follow the "from my cold dead hands" and on the other hand want to abdicate their rights to a loss prevention "officer". Gawd, you might as well give up your firearms to Pelosi right now.
Anyone wanting to abdicate their constitutuonal rights to a lp "officer" (only concerned with the profitibility of a corporation) deserve what happens to them.
Wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round....
'round and 'round
'round and 'round
Wheels on the thread go 'round and 'round all through the town...
Has this been beaten to death yet?
...Hands off...Mall ninja stays back, call 911, take names, wait for the professionals...
Know the law.
From experience, paramedic70002 is right:
§ 9.1-146. Limitation on powers of registered armed security officers.
Compliance with the provisions of this article shall not itself authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or exercise any powers of a conservator of the peace. A registered armed security officer of a private security services business while at a location which the business is contracted to protect shall have the power to effect an arrest for an offense occurring (i) in his presence on such premises or (ii) in the presence of a merchant, agent, or employee of the merchant the private security business has contracted to protect, if the merchant, agent, or employee had probable cause to believe that the person arrested had shoplifted or committed willful concealment of goods as contemplated by § 18.2-106. For the purposes of § 19.2-74, a registered armed security officer of a private security services business shall be considered an arresting officer.
Also, watch out, in some states there may be a similar law:
§ 18.2-105.1. Detention of suspected shoplifter.
A merchant, agent or employee of the merchant, who has probable cause to believe that a person has shoplifted in violation of § 18.2-95 or § 18.2-96 or § 18.2-103, on the premises of the merchant, may detain such person for a period not to exceed one hour pending arrival of a law-enforcement officer.
The law will sort things out after the fact.
When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle