What might you have done?

What might you have done?

This is a discussion on What might you have done? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sorry if this has already been posted - I didn't see it anywhere's. What might you have done if you were the one attacked - ...

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Thread: What might you have done?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    What might you have done?

    Sorry if this has already been posted - I didn't see it anywhere's.

    What might you have done if you were the one attacked - what if you were just one of the other customers???

    http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.ga...zzaassault.wmv
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  2. #2
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    ArmyCop

    Yep, I think it was already a thread topic. But, I sure did watch the Vid a couple of more times.
    So the guy got 4 years in GrayBar Institute for that beating? He is lucky he didn't get 4 holes in the cakepot.

    Well, if I were standing in that line...which I sure would not eat any pizza from a rat hole like that....BUT, if I were waiting in that line...I think there might be a little "Extra Sauce" served on the pizza that night.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    If I were the one attacked? Well, I'd lay some fung-ku on him, and emerge victorious. NOT!! If kong hammerred me in the pie hole while I was chitchatting on the cell phone, I'd probably cave like a house of cards. Lets face it, I know guys, by being guys, are automatically cage fighting champions. But me, I'm gonna admit right here and now, that dude has me outwieghed, outclassed, out everythinged. If that 400lbs of really unpleasantness lands a right hook on my chin while I'm looking at my cell phone, I'm going to the floor, probably unconcious. Just physics. The only way for me to survive this guy is not to smash his fist with my face. That means being aware of my surroundings, who is moving where in a confined space and why, and not being so focused on any one thing that I cant respond to something else. But, once I'm hit like cellboy, my reaction is the same-floor! now! If I've been successful in being aware, then I'm gonna try like hell to just get out of the confined area that is the "pizza shop of death". Out the door and down the street, bro. If I cant get out, then all bets are off. I will do what I need to do to get home to my wife and kids. And, after Oct, in my home state of Florida, I will have no duty to retreat (although, in this case I'm still gonna try). And, if found justified legally, then I wont be sued civilly.
    The point of the excersize (life in general), is NOT to get caught with your whatzidoodle in your hand when the starting gun goes off and the balloon goes up. In this case, that is just what cellboy did. He got in deeper and faster than he could get out. And he, by surviving, will probably advance one rung on the darwin ladder. On his next outing, his head will be on a swivel, and his cell conversation will be short.

    As to if I were in line....my first reaction is to say with all the chest pounding and strutting that "I would save cell boy's behind by physically confronting Kong." Yeah, and he stomps me to a shapless wad. In all honesty, I will be dialing 911 and moving to the door and stating to the op that there is an attempted murder in progress loudly enough for fatboy to hear me and hopefully break off his attack. If that doesnt do it, I MAY expend a little Fox on his eyes and poopie sniffer, followed by a quick shoe shine as I exit the door, and try to render aid to the (hopefully) escaping victim. What I am not gonna do is draw down on this guy.
    In the link I hope I can post, I will relay my more complete thoughts about intervening w DEADLY FORCE ON BEHALF OF A THIRD PARTY not known to me. Please understand my post is in response to those who would call anyone not drawing a gun a 'sheeple' or coward or that by not drawing you should not have a permit. So, there may be a hint of venom in my response, BUT that is to the previous posters in that forum, not you guys.....

    Yeah, its all about being a good samaritin behind your keyboard. Till you're there, you dont know how you will react to such a violent, sudden, viscous attack. If you've never been witness to or the recipient of such an assault, you may freeze. If you dont know cell boy, or if he is not part of your family, and you intervene with deadly force, you are really sucking around for a court date. Even if the law in your state permits interceding on a third party's behalf, and even if you believe this guy was in jeopardy of being killed (and he was), and you dust fatboy with your sporty forty, you can expect to appear before da judge. You had no dog in this fight (again, assuming you are no relation to cell boy), yet you chose to become involved. Even if you are found not guilty of murder/manslaughter, how much did it cost you and your family for the lawyer that saved yer behind? And when the family of the rehab'd ex con sues you civilly for the wrongful death of the family's bread winner, how much is that gonna cost, even if you win? And what if you lose? How much then? From all that time off work to appear in court and meet with your lawyer, and bank folks to mortgage you house to pay your lawyer, do you still have a job?
    And lets just say you draw down on bigboy, and he turns on you and since you've seen what he can do, you shoot, and he dont stop like he should according to the movies? And now, you are wishing for a glass of water to wash down that customized pistola that Kong is now force feeding you. Now your wife and kids will do without 'cause you wanted to be a cop.
    Or, a shot goes errant, and now the mom coming in the door with the baby in her arms catches that round? or the baby? oooh, is that a criminal AND civil suit I feel coming on?
    All for a guy you dont know and to feed your machismo. IF you want to be a sheep dog ---be one--get a badge. If cell boy wasnt living in a world where 'it cant happen to me', he would be packing and would bail his own ass out of this. I choose to go armed, so can he. I'm not losing everything for a dude who chose to go naked.
    Those of us who have chosen to go as armed CITIZENS, have not taken an oath to use arms to protect the general public. Read your state statutes. Your right to carry a deadly weapon is to protect you and yours. The third party stuff gets real dicey when the lawyers get involved. So no, I will not hang my head in shame if I chose to vacate the premisis, go home and hug my wife, help my 8 year old with her homework and my 3 year old color his pictures, rather than a) be dead from an ass whippin' I could have avoided, b) down at the station house trying to explain why I was shooting a guy for beating someone I dont know.
    That all being said, a little Fox oc and rubbin' tha boot might be just what largeboy needs. And you guys are right, killin is what he really needs. But till he attacks me, I cant do it.

    Dan

  4. #4
    Member Array SSKC's Avatar
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    So...Dan...how do feel about this?

    Sorry, couldn't pass it up.

    Several valid points, BTW.

    SSKC

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    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Sorry, S. I've never passed up the opportunity to write up a doctoral thesis when a few words will do. But I do feel strongly about this. So many folks on other forums responded with some variation of "I'd pull my gun and ...", and if YOU dont yer a "yellow bellied" whatever. Folks getting in unwarranted gunfights is the one and only thing guaranteed to get our rights diminished. I dont want that to happen.

    Dan

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    Talking King Kong?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner
    Or, a shot goes errant, and now the mom coming in the door with the baby in her arms catches that round? or the baby? oooh, is that a criminal AND civil suit I feel coming on?

    All for a guy you dont know and to feed your machismo. IF you want to be a sheep dog ---be one--get a badge. Those of us who have chosen to go as armed CITIZENS, have not taken an oath to use arms to protect the general public. Read your state statutes. Your right to carry a deadly weapon is to protect you and yours. And you guys are right, killin' is what he really needs. But till he attacks me, I cant do it. Dan
    Gotta agree 100%, however that's the wisdom of age talking. When I was a young shavetail screwey looie (Second Lieutenant, US Army) I'd prolly have jumped in with both combat boots and been fed them one at a time. But I'd have tried. You make my most cogent point these days about going home to the wife and family.....alive and sans lawsuits or charges. If Kong turns on me or goes after my wife then that's something else. Then it's Law of the JUNGLE.

    Also that errant shot is most likely to be a result of a bounce off a solid object rather than as a result of TNT (thru-n-thru gunshot) or a solid miss on a target the size of Kong at that range, unless the bystander intersects with round BEFORE it strikes Kong. That being said, it's a good case for frangible first or second shot in Glaser Silver or MagSafe both of which will just tickle Kong in COM but score bigger if the headshot is taken.

    BTW, I'm still a sheep dog, but I would choose to apply that in the case of a terror attack at the mall or something along those lines. Maybe if I was in the supermarket and it got held up...that sort of thing. But some guy is on condition WHITE and invites getting clobbered? Don't think so.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #7
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    King Kong

    That there is a mighty nice sized fellow.
    Really though if you really study the Vid he is not at all a good fighter or even a "street fighter" ~ and is pretty slow moving and clumsy.
    I would call him awful slow but, determined & deliberate.
    He moves like a slow brute but you sure don't want to let him catch you a good solid hit "up side your head" ~ The only thing he really has going for him though is his bulk & weight.
    Seriously, if I knew that he had his sights set on me I would give him a quick, crushing blow right to the windpipe & he would probably drop like a wet rock. But, I sure would run like Hell from his girlfriend!!!
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  8. #8
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    No worries

    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner
    Sorry, S. I've never passed up the opportunity to write up a doctoral thesis when a few words will do. But I do feel strongly about this. So many folks on other forums responded with some variation of "I'd pull my gun and ...", and if YOU dont yer a "yellow bellied" whatever. Folks getting in unwarranted gunfights is the one and only thing guaranteed to get our rights diminished. I dont want that to happen.

    Dan
    You have noted the varying flavor of responses from forum to forum. I have visited several self-defense/firearms forums over the years and some seem to have the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" attitude, vs. a generally more responsible approach on others (like this one).

    I think your "thesis" ;) generally fits in with this crowd.

    SSKC

  9. #9
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    Talking King Kong?

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    That there is a mighty nice sized fellow.
    Really though if you really study the Vid he is not at all a good fighter or even a "street fighter" ~ and is pretty slow moving and clumsy.
    I would call him awful slow but, determined & deliberate.
    He moves like a slow brute but you sure don't want to let him catch you a good solid hit "up side your head" ~ The only thing he really has going for him though is his bulk & weight.
    Seriously, if I knew that he had his sights set on me I would give him a quick, crushing blow right to the windpipe & he would probably drop like a wet rock. But, I sure would run like Hell from his girlfriend!!!
    I don't think I could REACH his windpipe, but I've seen how one well placed side kick to the side of a locked knee can ruin a whole day for just about anybody and it can be effectively delivered by just about anybody, even a little kid. When the knee gets blown out, that old adage about the bigger they are, the harder they fall....really comes to the front!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    ExSoldier

    The Bigger They Are...He would fall Awful Hard!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Ex,
    good point on the prefrag ammo for the first round or two. Yeah, the errant shot is more likely from a total miss rather than tnt. But, pull a gun in a crowded, tiny lobby like that and people are gonna go to scrambling. And one may just intercept a round.
    My wife pointed out that had I been an onlooker and NOT carrying a firearm, then a full blown physical confrontation would be more likely, as the concerns I posted over a gun would not be present (at least on my part, now one thing we have never considered since it didnt happen in the tape, is that kong may have had a popper on him, too).
    Anyway, that's all supposition for now. I'm gonna hit a coupla pizza joints in town an' see if I can get anyone to kick my narrow ass.

    Dan

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Talking

    QK,
    you make a valid point w the windpipe hit. IF, you know its coming. My point was that by observing the video, our hero (cellboy) didnt seem to really believe he was gonna get flogged like a bishop at the Inquisition. He did nt even have his hands up in guard, or as I like to call it "please dont beat my ignorant ass, mister, please" position.
    Rule 1 - be aware.
    But if you aint aware, just try to survive. I dont know anyone who, if caught that flatfooted by a punch like that, can shrug that off, and get back in the fight immediately. Go to the ground and crawl under/behind cover till yer senses return (yes, I have used this tactic, called a successfull, macho image-shattering retreat).

    That's the difference between you guys on this forum and the average cell chatting punching bag. You dudes (and dudettes) would never have let Kong close ground 'cause you adhere to rule 1. Rule one was "be aware". That rule alone will get you by 99% of the time. Its almost an impossibility to ask this group "what would you do if you were the guy in line?", cause nobody here would still be waiting for the brute to hit them.
    ps, no luck with the search for someone to crown me today

    Dan

  13. #13
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    Cool Kong Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner
    Rule 1 - Be aware. That's the difference between you guys on this forum and the average cell chatting punching bag. You dudes (and dudettes) would never have let Kong close ground 'cause you adhere to rule 1. Rule one was "be aware". That rule alone will get you by 99% of the time. Its almost an impossibility to ask this group "what would you do if you were the guy in line?", cause nobody here would still be waiting for the brute to hit them. Dan
    Anytime somebody with Kong's look enters my moving perimeter, I watch them. I also watch the guys who're real quiet, 'cause they're the ones who've got nothing to "prove" to anybody.....one sign of the truly dangerous. I'm not talking about the truly ignorant sheeple either. Those are the guys who get eaten by the predators because they look like prey. I'm talkin' about the guys with that "thousand yard stare" who are still aware of everything and saying nothing. Be Aware? You bet.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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