Friend's Scary Situation

[Betty]

A former classmate posted this in her blog:

I got a really good scare at Wal-Mart this afternoon. Yesterday was Carter's birthday, and we stopped on our way home from church to pick up a few last minute party supplies. Anyway, we were going from the food section to the toy section. I had Norah and Carter in the cart, and Allie was walking along beside me. I was paying attention, but I was thinking about what I wanted to get and how I was tired and wanted to get home. All of a sudden this man comes running past me from behind as fast as he can, grabs Allie, and keeps running with her. Before I can scream for help, he stopped and turned around smiling. It ended up being my youngest brother, but for a split second, my heart stopped. It scared me, and Allie, to death. We all had a good laugh, and that was that.

Allie and I had just been talking yesterday about what to do if a stranger grabbed her like that. She has told me several times how much he scared her and now she knows what it's like for that to happen. I know he didn't mean to scare us as badly as he did, and it did drive a point home to her. I had told her to kick and scream and bite and fight. She asked me today what would have happened to her if she had done that to her uncle. Translation, "Would I get in trouble?" I told her he would have deserved whatever she did to him. My parents both told her the same thing too. It would have been funny if she'd kicked him in the shins (or worse) as hard as she could.

Now that I've got a little distance on it, there's something that bothers me about it. There were all these people around me when he did that. Not one moved to help. Not one asked if everything was alright when he brought her back to me. Not a single person wanted to get involved. What would they have done if it had not been my brother? We were in front of the door. He could have easily turned right, and I never would have seen her again. That's sad that all those people would rather not get involved than to make sure everything was alright. Would I have been one of those people? Would I have just pretended I didn't see anything and kept on going? I like to think that I would have tried to help. I hope I'm never in a situation where I would have to.

She's not armed, but even if she was and this was not a prank, it'd be hard to shoot without risking shooting her own child. And if she ran after him, she'd be leaving the other two kids behind and alone.

What would you have done?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[armoredman]

Scream, "He's taking my baby, he's taking my child!" Loud. Maybe one person will do something. Secure the other two children, try to get a visual on escape vehicle, if all the other sheeple refuse to take off the blinders. Get PD involved fast.
State laws vary on what force can be used, but in AZ, deadly force is authorized to prevent kidnapping.

13-411. Justification; use of force in crime prevention; applicability

A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304, manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904 or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.

That's a split second choice. Abductees are found dead FAR more often than alive, usually sexually abused and tortured first, regardless of age. Nobody can make that decision for you.

[Pete]

I don't have kids but if I did I would get very primitive, very fast.

If I were witness to events such as those happening to someone else's kid and he continued to leave I would get involved, I would follow him - running/driving if necessary.

I would call 911 and give commentary, I would maintain a safe distance but close enough to act if he turns homicidal.

Not sure what else I can do?

I would probably get sued if I just ran up and kicked his head off his shoulders...

[tapout1003]

I couldn't stand by and watch it happen. If he isn't not a great runner I have to give chase on foot. Yelling commands as I go. I'm not a track and field star but i'm not trying to run with a kicking screaming child either. The fact i'm armed will not come into play. Running target with a child. Way too much risk. My number one concern is keeping him from leaving the lot. I don't want to tackle a running man with a child. A fall from 5' up to a small child can be deadly. But if he leaves me no choice i have to take it. If he reaches a vehicle he will have down time. Unless it's a 2 man show. The min. he lets go of the kid to put him into a car or a van I have to take him out. If I have OC i might use it. If not I go right for his throat. Hopefully I'm not the only one involved and it's over quick. If he has a weapon (knife, pipe,gun) I have no choice but to shoot to stop the threat. If there is more than one person involved and i'm alone I have to draw. I'm very nervous about putting the gun in play in this type of situation. Lot's of people and things for the bullet to go into if it exits him. Including the kid.

I don't see the "yelling stop with a gun drawn" thing working here. If he's in front and already running he won't even look back. If he's too far away I have to get to my car and try to block him. Plenty of people will be calling 911 my phone won't come out until i'm in the car. I have a bluetooth. I need to at least get his plate and relay it.

Ohio will prob crucify me for even getting involved. Especially if I shoot the guy. But i'll sleep well in jail.

[Janq]

If I were her I'd have smacked him in the face, away from the kids and talking adult to adult.
Time and place...that was not the place to be pulling such a prank especially considering how people are in these times.

- Janq

[Rob72]

"Kidnapper!", point at the closest person, "Watch my babies!", and go. A tackle is much more effective if you stick a handle into the BG's upper back or kidney as you hit him. Hell, a can a Dinty Moore has good efficacy. Always carry more than one weapon.

[P95Carry]

That takes ''prank'' beyond what is even funny IMO. I am all for fun and the occasional joke with folks but - there are limits.

Not totally sure right now quite what by best options would have been, were I in her situation.

[havegunjoe]

A side note to her observation of the people surrounding her that did nothing; GMA once did an experiment on a busy street corner of a large city. They had a child actor screaming that a man was not her father and was trying to take her. Some security expert was the man. Time after time people walked right by and averted their eyes. Even women. Finally two young guys got involved. It was enough to make you sick. Just goes to show you can't rely on anyone for help.

[ExSoldier]

Wow. If I was immediately in the path of a man fleeing with a child and I had reasonable belief it was in fact a kidnapping in progress, I think I'd have to take some sort of proactive measures. That might involve a draw but only if I have an unobstructed line of sight to his head and if the range is fairly close...say inside of 20 feet. If he's passing me and close enough to touch (or trip) I go that route and try to safeguard the child from a nasty fall. Otherwise I make a good witness and see if I can get a plate number. I have recently begun carrying a nonlethal layer of defense in a small stun device with a 900,000 volt punch. I find that it has amazing detrimental effect just in triggering the device in the open air. That super loud CRACKLE noise really gets attention!

[cagueits]

A former classmate posted this in her blog:

We were in front of the door. He could have easily turned right, and I never would have seen her again.

In real life an idling van with open sliding doors, another kidnapper waiting on the driver's seat for the kidnapper snatching the child would complete the scenario. You ain't gona have time to cry out for help or grab anything to hit the bad guy or tell anyone to watch your kids while you run towards the last place you think you saw your child. Once the van starts moving (with your child inside) it will be ditched just out of sight - a new unsuspicios vehicle will be used to evade the area. The snatch will be timed so no police is around (responding units will be driving to the main entrance of the store [passing by the new vehicle being used in the kidnapping] and the delay from someone calling info in to 911 [45 seconds to 2-3 minutes] will be too long - it will give the time needed to switch vehicles and get away).

If your guard is so relaxed that you afford your child to be taken (or if you are dissabled while fighting or for whatever other reason), your only safe bet is to shoot in less that 2 or 3 seconds - even if that means shooting your own child by mistake. If the child gets inside the van, I'm willing to bet you'll never see him/her again - alive that is. If your child gets shot, apply first aid - paramedics will be there shortly. No jury would convict you for missing your shot while trying to save your child's life. There will be video of your actions, people around as witnesses.

2 or 3 seconds tops is all you have. In battle, when you fire your weapon, hits are the only thing that count... Make that shot count - you only have one chance.

Just my 2 cents.

[plblark]

Wow. If I was immediately in the path of a man fleeing with a child and I had reasonable belief it was in fact a kidnapping in progress, I think I'd have to take some sort of proactive measures. That might involve a draw but only if I have an unobstructed line of sight to his head and if the range is fairly close...say inside of 20 feet.

congratulations, you've now entered a custody dispute where the guy is being set up by his ex who has stalked him to the Wal Mart and caused a scene. The guy leaves quick to end the scene. Ex gets loud and vocal. Enter you ... BANG.

Man are these scenarios scary.

[Cupcake]

I've pondered this long and hard. Nothing scares me more than the thought of my kids being in trouble and looking to me for help and I'm helpless. Except the thought of somebody having a child, especially mine, alone and doing whatever they want.

The guy is armed or not doesn't matter. I'm taking the shot. It's a terrible thought that I could hit one of my kids, but NOONE is taking them out of my sight.

[Tom G]

One of my greatest fears is haveing a child kidnapped. there are too many perverts out there. I'm glad that your kids are ok.

[azchevy]

why does everyone need to use a gun. I would tackle him and put him in a choke hold until things got sorted out

[Pete]

why does everyone need to use a gun. I would tackle him and put him in a choke hold until things got sorted out

Where did I mention a gun?