When is it justified to fire into a crowd? Merge - Page 3

When is it justified to fire into a crowd? Merge

This is a discussion on When is it justified to fire into a crowd? Merge within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Musketeer And now from Milwaukee... http://www.breitbart.tv/html/1962.html What is with this Juneteenth celebration? I never heard of it before today and now we ...

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Thread: When is it justified to fire into a crowd? Merge

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    And now from Milwaukee...

    http://www.breitbart.tv/html/1962.html

    What is with this Juneteenth celebration? I never heard of it before today and now we have mobs attacking drivers in two states during it. Is it possible for the community in question NOT to commit acts of violence during an assembly? I am sorry, but the evidence is there to see.
    huh, I guess it's just a mob mentality, with probably a few instigators. That type of situation (being attacked in your car by a herd of people outside) is when you lay on the horn and step on the gas.

    I think what made the Austin situation so tough was that both victims were out of the car helping the girl. This was the right thing to do, as anything less would be a hit-and-run, and they had no way to predict that the crowd would turn homicidal. Unfortunately, it got one of them killed.


  2. #32
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    If I had been the passenger as soon as they started hitting my buddy, that many people, the fear of death or grave physical harm already exists. I would have put as many holes in as many of them as possible as fast as possible. I have no moral problem shooting evil men in the act. I would be in my legal rights from several directions with this one. I would never leave a friend to die.

    I lived in gang infested areas when I was a kid. I've seen to much of this kind of crap. 99.9% of the time everyone broke and ran at the first couple of shots. It was a rare occasion that the crowd was so worked up that it took several shots before they broke up.
    “You come at me with a sword and with a spear. But I come at you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you". 1 Samuel 17, 45-46
    Brian

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by country85 View Post
    That is why I avoid festivals that attract thousands, mob mentality takes over
    Agreed.

    When I was younger and dumber I'd go to such events and be right in the middle of mobs and not think twice about it...hey it was fun!
    Today being older and less dumb with a wife, two babies, a mortgage, and responsibilities...no damn way.
    Like you other guys I'm now a fan of the 'G.O.O.D.' programme.

    As to mobs and being attacked in ones vehicle I watched with amazement and horror on live TV the LA Riots and subsequent attack of Reginald Denney amongst many other innocents in vehicles. That changed my mind about humans and mobs forever; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfmEjIJyDT8 :(

    If some mob attacks me or mine in a vehicle and I have even an 1/8th tank of gas, to hell with it as I'm selecting reverse or D2 and flooring it. Allstate can work out the damages toward property and I'd rather spend time in court defending my actions than be hit in the head with a brick and spend a year in therapy trying to relearn who I once was and how to walk & talk or worst have my family left to plan my wake. :/
    I'd save my sidearm for last resort such as if the car runs out of gas or torque and/or the zombies have surrounded me/us and they're breaking through the glass.

    Mobs and mob mentality are extremely dangerous.

    An example of as much from earlier this year...
    As reported by CBS11TV.com:
    Exclusive: Teens Pelt Driver With Bricks, Stones
    Woman Says She Only Tried To Stop A Fight Between Them
    As reported on 3.27.07 by CBS11TV.com:
    http://cbs11tv.com/local/local_story_066221802.html
    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  4. #34
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    Wow... very tough call as to exactly which way to go. IF, they could have gotten back into the car and drive off... I would have tried that first if possible.

    If mob ensues while out trying to render aid to the girl and escape by car is unavailable then you have no choice but to defend yourself with the gun.

    The law is on your side when facing a mob.

    I would pick the ring leader first, again, if possible and identifiable.

    The law says, when acting as part of a mob, all are just as culpable as the one who started it... so if you are aiming at the ring leader and miss and hit bubba standing behind the ring leader... well, tough $@&% for bubba! You are still covered.

    Make sure your shots aren't wasted. Make sure you hit someone who is part of the mob with good focused shots. If facing a mob of say 12 - 20, I would shoot at least two or three of them quickly and reassess.

    If they back away and allow you to leave in the car, do so. If shooting two or three of them doesn't disuade them yet. Keep shooting! As long as the ones you hit are part of the mob, you should be covered legally.

    That is why if I am in any large metro city I carry two hi capacity guns with two reloads for each gun. With reloads I'm packing 72 rounds all concealed. 4 spare magazines and 2 loaded guns isn't THAT hard to conceal.

    Now when I'm in home turf in rural area I usually carry one gun with two reloads or two guns with one reaload for each gun.

    I watched Reginald Denney in the LA riots get his head caved in probably 50 times on TV too! I watched the trial on Court TV as well. The guy who busted his head (street name "football") got his wrist slapped. Not even 6 years after that incident, he was arrested again. That time was for a murder!

    Lessons learned from that incident: Avoid mobs, but you can easily find yourself in the middle of one by accident. Carry firepower!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    I hate to ask but we had a similar case in NY where a driver hit a child in a neighborhood and was beaten to death for it. In that particular case there were some "racial differences" between the driver (Jewish) and child/mob (black).

    Was this racially motivated?
    According to what I read, the attackers were black, the dead guy and his friend were hispanic.

    And from what I read, the little girl was not even seriously injured. So glad they killed a guy over it.


    Did you read about the Milwaukee "celebration" that went on? People hauled a guy out of a car and beat him, among other general havok.

    If I say any more, I'll just get myself "in trouble." Suffice it to say that demographics trouble me when stuff like this goes on. It seems to be an over-and-over again thing. The only one with any guts to say anything about it is Bill Cosby, and he keeps getting hushed.
    Last edited by rstickle; June 21st, 2007 at 09:45 AM. Reason: Questionable comment.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    I'm with Janq on using a vehicle as a weapon.

    As much as driving a V8 powered 4X4 truck hurts at the fuel pump, in this instance I would want as much torque, mass, and height as I can muster.

    IF my family is with me, God help anyone who gets in my way.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    I'm with Janq on using a vehicle as a weapon.

    As much as driving a V8 powered 4X4 truck hurts at the fuel pump, in this instance I would want as much torque, mass, and height as I can muster.

    IF my family is with me, God help anyone who gets in my way.
    I agree 100% about staying in the vehicle and using it to get out of a bad situation and tough noogie if you run over people in a threatening mob/riot situation.

    But this situation was different (at least as how it has been reported in the media). These two men were pulling into an apartment complex and accidently hit a little girl... You just don't automatically flee the scene... Not only is that a crime, but is morally wrong as well.

    I think they pretty much did what ANY ONE OF US would do in a similar circumstance, and that was to immediately get out and try to help the little girl and see what happened. That all happened in probably just a couple of seconds tops! (would you, after just hitting a little kid with your car, actually take note of a group of people and automatically know that they were going to kill you before you got out of your car to check on the kid you just hit?)

    I'm sure they didn't find themselves in the threatening situation and in the clutches of an angry murderous mob until after they were out of the car trying to help the girl. I am guessing it was only a matter of a few moments before they found themselves unable to escape.

    While we don't have all the facts and do not know exactly how it really played out, I would venture to say that it probably happened pretty close to how I just described it. That would make more sense and a likely scenario.

    JMHO though, I could be mistaken. The real facts aren't all out there. Maybe the guy who hit the girl was going way too fast (we've all seen that before) and that's what set the mob off... maybe he'd even been drinking... These are facts we do not have so opinions here are just that, opinions without the benifit of all the facts.
    Last edited by Bark'n; June 22nd, 2007 at 01:28 AM.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #38
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    The use of a weapon would be justified by the disparity of force present in mob violence. Whether or not a shot would disperse the crowd or make things worse is utterly unpredictable.

    I'm with Limatunes on this one.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    I'm with Janq on using a vehicle as a weapon.
    No firearm capable of being carried and fired by a human being can match the "stopping power" of the "Goodyear Double-Tap".

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    No firearm capable of being carried and fired by a human being can match the "stopping power" of the "Goodyear Double-Tap".
    I like that one it goes "Bump, Bump" instead of "BANG BANG"

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    No firearm capable of being carried and fired by a human being can match the "stopping power" of the "Goodyear Double-Tap".
    I prefer to call it the Dodge "Ram".

  12. #42
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    If I saw a mob beating the hell out of a guy, I think I would just call the police and not get involved. Most of the responses I have read on this have basically turned the situation from bad to worse. There is no real good solution!

    Ramming a group of people with a car, shooting a crowd of people, etc. What about stray bullets hitting more little kids? What will happen when you are in court and a little 9 year old girl takes the stand with "Michelin" stamped on her forehead and points to you as the psycho who started it and proceeded to run over everyone?

    I just hope you guys aren't around my neck of the woods when a mob is beating the hell out of someone and I am trying to get in my car a hundred yards away in the AM to go to work and catch a stray .45 in my arse!
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  13. #43
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walther1 View Post
    If I saw a mob beating the hell out of a guy, I think I would just call the police and not get involved. Most of the responses I have read on this have basically turned the situation from bad to worse. There is no real good solution!
    Most of the responses in this thread are from the POV of being the driver or passenger in the car (either the one getting beaten or his friend). Are you suggesting that you would rather let yourself get beaten to death?

  14. #44
    Member Array walther1's Avatar
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    How did the first guy get out of it? It said he did. Did he run? I know I would pull a Jesse Owens. I am only saying that blunt force is the last thing needed. If it was a friend of mine, of course I would want to help, (maybe drawing weapon so both could escape or maybe, like I originally said, calling police being a good witness, even if I had to stay in car) but shooting bullets into a crowd and ramming them with a car is not a good option for me.
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  15. #45
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    I mean no racial negitives by what I am about to say. BUT when I was working Metro EMS our police officers...both white and black...hated having to patrol Juneteen. It is a time that people drink too much and "have a attitude" already. This was almost 20 years ago and I can't imagine it has gotten any easier.
    I would avoid any crowds during this activity or any like it.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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