Attacked at a stop light - a few anecdotes - Page 2

Attacked at a stop light - a few anecdotes

This is a discussion on Attacked at a stop light - a few anecdotes within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Last year (on Mother's Day, no less), the PCC (a major prison based gang) declared what ammounted to open war on the police and citizens ...

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Thread: Attacked at a stop light - a few anecdotes

  1. #16
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    Last year (on Mother's Day, no less), the PCC (a major prison based gang) declared what ammounted to open war on the police and citizens of Sao Paulo, primarily in retaliation for a government crack-down on in prison cell phone use (which the gang leaders require to run their gangs). Buses were torched, police stations attacked by squads of gang members, police officers and firefighters assassinated - it was a bad scene. The retaliation was just as bad, as the cops went out in de facto death squads and killed anyone they suspected of being a part of the attacks. Of course, most of the casualties ended up being innocents caught in the crossfire...

    It was pretty amazing. Sao Paulo is the economic center of Brazil, if not of South America - it would be as if a criminal gang (as opposed to a riot of true civil disturbance) went on a rampage in New York and attacked the NYPD, FDNY, and FBI. This can be a strange place sometimes....
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Question: A, B, & C
    Answer: Do all non-emergency business, entertainment, and feeding of family et. al. excursions in Brazil before sunset prior to the hyena coming out to feed.

    As to being attacked in a vehicle I wouldn't drive away in a straight line just as I wouldn't run away in a straight line. Zig-zag pattern FTW and in or on a vehicle that means making right turns (on a left hand drive vehicle) and using concealment such as other cars along with hard cover such as adjacent buildings to aid in my escape.

    No commercial vehicle that I know can out run a bullet in a straight line.
    But no bullet that I know can handle turns and corners like even the cheapest lowest of budget vehicle.
    As well if the BGs are stupid enough to come running at me from behind and leave me with nowhere to go but forward or reverse. Guess what direction I'm going to select...
    It's kind of hard to aim and fire with 2+ tons of rear bumper punching into ones gut, pelvis, or thighs with the vehicles accelerator set to max throttle.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  3. #18
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    A couple of problems here, Janq... First, it's pretty hard for most of us to live our lives only during daylight - heck, on many days it's dark when I leave work. Even if I could be locked up at home by sundown every night, I'm not willing to restrict my life that way...

    Next problem - how do you zig zag while coming from a full stop? A car can only do so much at once - if you are trying to zig-zag, you will rob yourself of almost all acceleration from a dead stop. Ducking down and smashing the gas are generally the best options when attacked from the rear - these examples only show that you can get dinged even when you do what is considered "right."
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Opfor,

    I'm looking at it from the perspective of I'm in Brazil on vacation or for business.
    I wouldn't move there.
    But for sake of conversation say I did, I wouldn't have my family including children at ~7 yrs. of age out and about near midnight in a zone where I know carjackings and such are SoP for the streets. Bedtime in my household is at 7PM sharp with story time at 6:30P and that would not change in Brazil.
    For a family vehicle in a high crime zone I'd invest in an SUV and one preferably that has some mass to it along with balls to as my mom used to say 'get up 'n go'.
    As to being you and/or single and/or with no family to be concerned for then well as with most everything else, YMMV.

    As to zig-zagging reread my post.
    I was speaking to that toward running on foot, not being in a vehicle. I'd said that in a vehicle I'd follow that concept by taking advantage, as immediately as at all possible, to making a preferably right turn as opposed to going straight in hope of out running a bullet(s) in an 1/8th mile dash.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #20
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    OK, better understood. To clarify, these are not "high crime" areas, but rather some of the main areas of town. It's like going to DC and saying "I just won't go to Constitution Ave." But I see where you're coming from. A 7pm bed time just can't happen in my life, though, so I have to deal with darkness.... :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #21
    New Member Array EricD10563's Avatar
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    Reminds me of working as a LEO in NY during the 80's and the crack epidemic, I used to drive at times with my S&W Chief 38 under my thigh and hand on the butt. Never had a problem but I think if you are fore-warned you should be fore-armed, you know there are car jackers and such you should have a plan of action before hand. If its that bad then purchasing a bullet resistant vest is not a bad idea, place it over the seat if you can. I would prefer to drive away if I can than shoot it out, or shoot and drive.
    Former New Yorker now living in Hawaii

  7. #22
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    The scenarios you describe are a bad problem, but thought-provoking also. The BG's are capitalizing on repetitive numbers of citizens sitting innocently a few feet away from them and they are waiting on easy-looking targets. I recently saw the quote below posted in CCW Tactical Scenarios, I copied part of it here:

    "He does however, make a simple & easy method to apply to our own defense......I think we can all apply his "Deter, Detect, Delay, and Defeat." methodology to our own defense.

    A couple of examples:
    Deter- Don't look like a victim. Make yourself as un-appealing to the BG as possible.

    Detect- Be aware of your surroundings, find the BG before he finds you.

    Delay- Make an attack for a BG as hard as possible. Make it difficult for BG to get close enough to cause harm. Keep as much distance from BG as possible.

    Defeat- WIN! You are fighting for your life or that of an innocent. There are NO rules, WIN at all costs!"


    So in the "Deter" and "Detect" thinking, of course staying out of the bad parts of town late at night would be helpful. Dark tinted windows wouldn't hurt either. Previously mentioned steel plate is a fix, but not necessarily so for a side attack. A "Delay" idea is to avoid rolling right up to a risky red light area and stopping (that's where the BG's are waiting, and wanting single cars) if you see a red light ahead and no other cars, slow down to a crawl 200-300 yds away and wait for it turn green. You still could get shot at but at least you have some decent speed when you finally go through the intersection. Another idea is not stopping and waiting at the red light at all, just pull up to it and turn right while still rolling, then modify your travel to put yourself back in the direction you want to go. In the "Defeat" category there is good opportunity for the police to use a decoy vehicle and defeat the BG's with unexpected firepower.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Either floor it....to get away, or put it in reverse and take one of them out...

  9. #24
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    A couple of good ideas there - a ballistic vest hung over the seat is certainly easier than a steel plate, and you can always grab it if the car is disabled and you find yourself having to E&E on foot...

    I also like the "slow down way early but don't stop" idea, if that's at all possible. Then, you already have momentum if you need to skedaddle, and hopefully the BGs will be detered from attacking a moving target.

    In actual practice, many people in areas where this is common have taken to just blowing stoplights if they don't see anyone on the cross streets. Probably not a great idea for most American towns, but it can work here...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  10. #25
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    I've ran more than my far share of red lights in certain parts of a few cities. I always try and leave myself an escape route, be it for BG's or a traffic crash.
    I would like to think I would test out my SUV's toughness if it came down to it, but I hardly drive it anymore. I'm always in my speedy car or work car. My work car is lucky it gets out of its own way, ( A Camry) and my speedy car can out run most everything but I need that escape route, cause it aint pushing anything out of the way.
    The LEO in me wants to stay and fight, take BG's to the coroners office or jail, but if the family is with me, we are outta there.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #26
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    OPFOR... If I may ask... are you a resident of Brazil or are you stationed, or working there? Are you a US citizen or Brazilian citizen? If US citizen, how long have you been living down there?

    Just my curiosity!

    I have a paramedic friend who also works with a relief agency and goes to Honduras for a couple weeks a year to bring supplies and medical aid to the people of Honduras, so international travel is very familiar to her. She's been to Honduras and Guatamala about 7 or 8 times in the last 4 or 5 years.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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