Shooting, Gun Retention, Jams, and Jail Time

[limatunes]

I don't know if this video was ever posted before, but YouTube has a way of sucking me into its depths and I find the most interesting stuff sometimes.

You will certainly have to watch the video to join in the discussion so without further adieu, here's the video to view...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hmfgh13KSyk

The things I would like to discuss/questions I have are as follows:

1. How incredibly quick the entire incident went down. So fast, if you watch closely, the police officer didn't even have time to lift his hand in his own defense. This is NOT a bash on the Officer. He was pulling the guy over for a loud stereo, nothing more, and I don't think any one of us could have reacted any faster.

2. What kind of a piece of crap gun was the bad guy using that jammed up so completely (though, in this case, it was a very GOOD thing)?

3. I am amazed the Police Officer had the presence of mind to retain his weapon despite what had just happened. Cudoes to him for retaining his weapon and saving his own life. Was that good training or just the will to survive (probably a bit of both)?

4. I COMPLETELY understood why the officer responded the way he did and also why he really didn't hit anything. I don't think my aim would be that great after that either.

5. The end of the video REALLY made me angry. Why the bad guy didn't get the chair is completely beyond me. After seeing the video there is no reason why he should not have been issued the death penalty (in my humble opinion).

So let's here it... sound off.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[jeephipwr]

Just another reason why the guys on the job deserve all my respect.

[Cupcake]

+1 on the Death Penalty request. Also curious about the type of gun and caliber/type of ammo. This officer took a direct hit to the frontal "medulla oblongotta instant incapacitation" target but was saved by the deflection of the round by his Maxilla (the bone under your nose), and stayed in the fight.

[pgrass101]

While I am not for the death penalty in most cases, If it was a choice between this man being released back into society at some point (in 63 years) or death I would have to choose death.

It is my belief that people who refuse to live by the standards we have set as a society (the BG was a career felon) then we have no choice but to remove them from society. This is nessecary for us to preserve our civilization. I also believe that there are some people who are so dangerous that we can not afford to allow them a chance to escape back to society (serial killers, serial rapists, pedophiles etc...).

The BG had proved that he could not function in our society but he was out on the streets and willing to shoot an officer over a loud radio. The P.O. was extermely lucky and reacted very well for being shot in the face.

[TexasDuck]

While I am not for the death penalty in most cases, If it was a choice between this man being released back into society at some point (in 63 years) or death I would have to choose death.

Now we get to support him for 63 years.

[turbo93]

well he looked to be in his 30's if he does all 63 years ( I would love to be on that parole board) he will be in his 90's when released. He will die in prison or shortly thereafter. If he got the death penalty it takes ove 10 plus years to be executed. It was only an attempt on the leo and there fore I think the death penalty does not pertain. The trooper was one lucky guy. The bg is probably a sociopath.

[Rob72]

1) The officer was leaving prints on the car, and/or making sure the trunk was closed- good.
2) The driver's door was open, and the officer approached w/o his weapon in hand (I know several officers who do all solo, night, stops with gun in hand, nor would they go past the door post). He could also have chosen to stay with his cruiser's spotlight, and had the BG get out of the car. Bad.
3) Don't know about the BG's gun- it could have been a forced stovepipe, created by the hand position, or contact with the officer.

This officer took a direct hit to the frontal "medulla oblongotta instant incapacitation" target but was saved by the deflection of the round by his Maxilla (the bone under your nose),

9mm, .40, or .45 Caliber is really irrelevant, all 3 can, and have proven to be, incapable of consistantly penetrating the skull. 7mm/.308 is pretty much the bottom for "guaranteeing" the one-shot-stop.

[FknRa]

While what happened was horrible and I am glad the officer got through it with minimal scarring, the first thing that stuck in my mind was: This is why your weapon needs to be 100%. And practice clearing your malfunctions.

I'm glad that the badguy didn't have either, but its a prime example of murphy helping out the good guy in this situation. That and even something routine can turn deadly, always be prepared and expect the unexpected.

[OPFOR]

First, that cop is tough. Shot in the face, pistol whipped, kicked, and he still keeps his weapon, escapes, and returns fire.

As for accuracy - he hit the car 15 of 16 times...there's a decent chance that one of his rounds would have found their mark had the car not been in the way. That's pretty darned good in my book, especially considering the circumstances.

Were there some "mistakes" in the stop itself? Sure, but who hasn't made a mistake in their life? His reaction to the situation after taking a round to the head at muzzle-contact distance was pretty amazing.

I also would like to know what the weapon/caliber/malfunction was, for the combination certainly saved the officer's life.

All in all - good show, sir.

[OPFOR]

On another note - do the "comments" on YouTube make anyone else want to vomit? Do these cretins really live among us? I mean, seriously, what the hell has gone wrong with the world? I know they're mostly just idiot kids, but still...it's truly depressing to know that the greatest country the world has even known still managed to produce such worthless, despicable, walking piles of garbage.

[Schwebel]

On another note - do the "comments" on YouTube make anyone else want to vomit? Do these cretins really live among us? I mean, seriously, what the hell has gone wrong with the world? I know they're mostly just idiot kids, but still...it's truly depressing to know that the greatest country the world has even known still managed to produce such worthless, despicable, walking piles of garbage.

You can't watch any video on there without seeing that crap anymore. That site is a flame war for 16yr old punks and jobless fat 35yr olds. That's why I don't read the comments anymore.

[ppkheat]

1,2,3,4,5 I agree with what you wrote, I think you nailed everything pretty well.

I presume the BG was going for the head shot because he could see or assumed the guy was wearing a vest.

The guy was really lucky

[QKShooter]

It should be noted that two NYC Police Officers were killed/murdered this very morning while doing a "routine" vehicle stop.

[popo22]

First off I am not criticizing the officer and am very glad he is alright. Too many officers automatically treat all traffic stops the same and walk up to the drivers side door (the way he was trained I'm sure). Not to second guess the officer, but this is not always the best idea.

We try to encourage our "FTO's" to teach alternative tactics, especially when you are alone and working on a fast roadway. Too many officers are hit by passing cars in the night time and all of the BG's expect you to walk up to the drivers door. I couldn't even guess at the number of stops I've made over the last 20+ years, many just the same as this one.

One thing I have learned is that we need to listen to those little signs that cause our hairs to raise on the back of our neck. If you feel something may be wrong in a stop, then I do not feel its inappropriate to approach from the passengers side of the suspect vehicle. First it gets you out of the roadway, and second it puts you in a much better vantage point to view the driver from an unexpected angle. Once you feel secure in your stop you can then proceed as usual.

Use all of your lights, especially the "spotlight" when making stops in the night time to obscure their vision. If you feel something may not be normal, order the driver out of the vehicle via the "PA", at least then you can get out of your unit and see his approach (his hands). This is nothing new to experienced "LEO's" but complacency is our enemy IMHO.
Good Luck

[Redneck Repairs]

good post lima , I have both investigated and participated in officer involved shootings , and this vid pretty much summs up the chaos as well as the courts ( imho ) discount on officers lives .