Emptying out your shed

This is a discussion on Emptying out your shed within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Fjol it's not like I disagree with you or think the right thing to do is let it happen. In fact when I am king ...

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Thread: Emptying out your shed

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Fjol it's not like I disagree with you or think the right thing to do is let it happen.

    In fact when I am king and 3 guys are caught trespassing on your property and you shoot them, you will be given a medal.

    But I won't be king for a long time if ever.

    Asserting your natural rights is not valued in our legal system nor is the notion of personal responsibility.

    Even if the contents of that shed are worth $15,000, will that cover your legal fees, not to mention the successful civil lawsuits all three of these guys are going to sue you for?

    Coddling criminals is the objective of our justice system, and independent armed people do not fit in the picture. No it's not right but that's how it is. Honestly, even in this county, I'd go up on charges for trying to detain someone doing that.

    Now if they're in your dwelling place... okay there's no good reason they should be in there. But that's not the scenario we are discussing.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I'm glad i don't live in that state LOL..........seriously though, I think at this point in time, all you could do is place a call to 911 and observe. Get as much info about the guys, their vehicle they have including plates. and the description of what they're stealing. If you have a video camera, take as much video where you're in a safe place to do so.
    I do Workers' Comp Investigations, and you'll be amazed at how one picture, or min of video holds it's weight in a Court of Law.. I do a lot of other "interesting stuff" as well. (you can imagine) I once got a video of a Evangalistic Minister who was suing a large hotel chain. I got him VERY active within his church, jumping up and down, with a bad back, shoulders and neck. To say the very least, the Jury decided 12-0 that he would not get a penny. BTW, when I was on the stand, I could see the jury snickering and laughing to themselves as they watched my video
    The Minister, his wife, their Daughter, AND his Dr all perjured themselves in the process too!!

  4. #18
    Member Array Fjolnirsson's Avatar
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    Well, Euclidean, I vote for you as King, then.
    No, I hear where you're coming from, and I know that's how things are. But it's not gonna happen on my watch, that's all.
    The American people need to stand up, and say, no more, that's enough, and then things will turn around. We also need to get jury nullification in use a lot more.
    Will it happen? I doubt it. The looters are in charge, and our Republic is in grave danger. The grand experiment has failed, I'm afraid.
    But that doesn't allow me to go against my beliefs. In the end, we are all judged by a jury greater than our peers, and I won't be found wanting.
    "Water can flow, or it can crash. Be like water, my friend."-Bruce Lee

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  5. #19
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    What if they are stealing your friendly dog?
    Try and take my dog, Sasha?

    Why, I won't have to do a thing. Several large gentlemen that used to work for my Father will stash the body where no one is likely to find it.

    Their genitals will be kept in a cut-glass container in my living room, where I may contemplate their folly from time to time.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Prospector's Avatar
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    Well, now my turn to chime in....I live in a state that places value on protecting one's private property....yes to the extent of using deadly force. I hate BGs from the minute of infractions to the most violent felons and since most start out with small stuff, it's just a matter of time before they escalate. I'm for total extermination...yeah I know, we haven't been able completely wipe out cockroaches either. You bet, I catch somebody stomping outta my shed with "my stuff", they're not going to get away without some bloodletting. This isn't just "cyber talk" from the safety of my computer....I've been victimized three times and unfortunately was never able to catch the bozos in the act. Bitter? you bet....for small stuff, the LEOs just take down the information and that's it....not their fault really. The system just seems to have revolving doors for these morons. I'm firm believer in setting examples, and if getting the news to report a BG shot and killed while vandalizing a house in a particular neighborhood, maybe the rest will think twice and go elsewhere. There. I feel better now!
    "Endeavor To Persevere"
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnirsson
    I have to disagree with the idea of letting them take stuff. That just serves to encourage and embolden the vermin. I have the right to remain unmolested on my property. Sure, the stuff out there, for the most part isn't worth killing for. But, I worked hard for all I have, and I'll be a monkey's uncle if some jerk is gonna get an early christmas in my backyard while I watch. It's the principle of the thing, not the property value.
    First, I call the cops and report the problem. I my neck of the woods, response time is about 2 minutes, and the cops tend to side with homeowners, especially when they're a block captain for the neighborhood watch. 2nd, I'll tell them from the back door to get lost. 3rd, I release 260+ lbs of dog. If that doesn't work, I'll probably go over and start busting up my shed with a shovel. That oughta freak 'em out. I'd rather destroy my own property than let some meth freak have it.

    On the topic of avoidance being best, sure. In public, I'll back down and walk away to avoid a shooting. But I won't be run off my land. That just isn't me. I mean, where does it stop? Today, it's my shed stuff. Tommorrow, my TV. Next week, they'll just slap me around, but hey, they said they wouldn't kill me, so it's ok? Just lie there, honey, they'll be done soon, and we don't want to face charges. It's a slippery slope(gods, I hate that cliche!), and a bad one to start down.

    How about this. What if they are stealing your friendly dog? Just property, right? I don't know about you, but they're family, almost like children. Sure, I'll send them out to fight, that's what they're for. But should we let someone take them?


    Many states have a concept of citizen's or private person's arrest. If you witness a crime in progress, in most cases you can detain legally using whatever force is neccessary. Also, it may be a legal error to approach, but it's the right thing to do. If we allow the barbarians in, they will tear down society. Look where compromise got us until we started fighting back on gun rights. Sorry, no compromise, and no quarter to the bad guys.
    My family hardly ever did "the right thing", that's why it's important to me that I do. I may go to jail for it someday, but at least I'll have that cold comfort while I sit in my cell.

    Rant over.

    On that note, read FortyFive's sig line, just above my post. Says it all.
    You said it all, quite completely. They will be facing a loaded shotgun and I'm betting they will lay face down on the ground voluntarily and wait for the police. I may go to jail, it may cost me a load of $$ but not many juries would convict someone for detaining a felon caught red handed....
    Bumper
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    If we're the good guys, do we really want to start shooting and taking life for property?
    Those committing said crimes in a pack will continue to do so. Packs become emboldened with success.

    Granted, I love my bike--which is insured and one of a million bikes just like it.

    If your answer is "yes, shoot the *******," then where is the line? Do we start splattering brains for the theft of a garden gnome?
    I go by two things:

    - My expense in defense versus the cost of the items I will never likely recover. Current rate card is about $2500 for my attorney- so that'll be my threshhold. If it exceeds, I'm good in my eyes.
    - Whether or not they're taking things that cross the line into grand theft, a felony. I can't shoot to defend property, but I *can* shoot to stop a felony in progress.

    I can see the wisdom in car-jackings, because the loss of life has always been great. Surrendering your car keys has never guarranteed your safety. But for 'stuff in a shed,' yikes, they can have the rake, the chain-saw and my Christmas lights.
    The criminal who today is robbing sheds may tomorrow come across a woman and rape her in the shed while taking the roto-tiller. I have no compunction about shooting those who willingly and egregiously break the law in my presence, a right afforded me by state law.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  9. #23
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    I am by nature, as a carrier - a great ''situation'' avoider - someone can call me yellow-belly for all I care. I do NOT seek trouble.

    BUT! If I find punks trying to steal my stuff - yes as Fjol mentions - stuff I have worked for - MY possessions, then I will almost certainly challenge and suggest they desist - prior to which of course the 911 buttons have been punched.

    Then - and only if - ''they'' fail to heed my request and come on ''heavy'' - as per a threat that is obvious - I WILL produce my piece (hoping like blazes not to need it). I get incensed when some other low life thinks other folks things are his and easy pickings. I would have to feel I was literally ''in fear of life'' naturally, to go the active shooting route.

    Otherwise I would prefer they do a vanishing trick having been discovered because I do not feel much confidence for holding at gun point - we have discussed that before - no ''citizen's arrest''.

    I hope this doesn't come over wrong - it is just that I find it hard to imagine witnessing my gear being violated and do nothing - might be my age!!
    Chris - P95
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I have to disagree with the overall tone here.

    Our legal system values their non-right to steal from you much more so than your right to personal property.
    That depends on the state and your willingness to expend $$$ in your own defense.

    That is a fundamental error legally and tactically to approach and attempt to hold them. You are putting yourself in harm's way unnecessarily.
    I'm protecting my things with my work, those things I have accumulated based on my work, and will lose due to someone else's theft.

    Can you really say you are in fear for your life in this situation?
    No requirement here for me to be such in stopping an in-progress felony.

    On top of that, how many of us here have the legal authority to hold someone against their will? I personally am not a sworn officer of any kind and have no legal authority to stop these guys.
    I can make a citizen's arrest for a felony. I'm liable if I'm wrong - but if it's my stuff and I haven't given them authority, well...

    Can you outgun two or three assailants with 100% rate of success?
    Nothing is certain in this life.

    What if it's the neighbor's nephews visiting who think the shed is their uncle's and they see you coming with a gun in hand? How would they react any differently than real burglars?
    Well, bad things happen. I'm not going to let an oddity of potential circumstance freeze any action I might take. This, ultimately, is the problem implicit in many internet scenarios - that there is always someone who points out that it might be a mother coming home or visiting a daughter or somesuch stuff I see on the anti-gunner sites out there and that wanton carnage will result. It's the same often irrational fear of overpenetration, handloads, and other errornet-related silliness that was once confined to water cooler stuff around the gun shop that's now the stuff of GospelTruth(TM).

    I'm not ratting on you here in particular, Euc - but this is a symptom of a greater problem and unfortunately it just happened to come out that way.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  11. #25
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    I have to agree with Fjolnirsson on this one, if they are on my property and commiting burglary, that is a felony, and as a citizen I have to right to detain an individual in the commision of a felony. If they choose to run instead of comply, so be it, I will not shoot them for trying to flee. I will confront them however.

    So I have to agree with Fjolnirsson and Bumper.
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Let me put it another way.

    I can be stubborn over some junk that's not worth anything to me, wind up going to jail for it, losing my professional career, my right to bear arms, my right to vote, and any meager amount of money I have have ever had.

    Or I can weigh the consequences of trying to do something about this problem against what I might possibly accomplish if I spend my life showing that armed people are law abiding and only want to help solve the problem. Maybe if I keep my right to vote and bear arms instead of throwing it away on something so silly as the junk in my storage room I can actually cause some meaningful social change so one day we won't have to face such a debate.

    I have a job. I'm an educator, not a law enforcement officer. Yes I should have the right to decide that I want to detain these individuals. But I don't.

    It's not that I don't care but at some point I have to choose my battles. I can't win this one, not in court where it counts. The cost of what it would take to win is probably more than I will make in 20 years. What good am I doing other gun owners if I go out and do something like this and get in some legal battle where my loss sets a negative precedent for the rest of you?

    Why let the anti gun forces ruin my life? That's what these laws and this legal system are designed to do, nothing more nothing less. I refuse to fall into their trap.

  13. #27
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    Thumbs up Can I Find Em....Or Can I Find Em????

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    Let me put it another way.

    I can be stubborn over some junk that's not worth anything to me, wind up going to jail for it, losing my professional career, my right to bear arms, my right to vote, and any meager amount of money I have have ever had.

    Or I can weigh the consequences of trying to do something about this problem against what I might possibly accomplish if I spend my life showing that armed people are law abiding and only want to help solve the problem. Maybe if I keep my right to vote and bear arms instead of throwing it away on something so silly as the junk in my storage room I can actually cause some meaningful social change so one day we won't have to face such a debate.
    I'll take door number 2, thank you. Your career and a night in jail (and everything else you mentioned losing) isn't going to mean much when these guys come back to the trough for their next meal. "Gee, if this guy keeps such nice stuff in his shed, just think about what he probably has in his house" comes to mind....
    Bumper
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  15. #29
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    Can I Find Em....Or Can I Find Em????
    What, QK, are you a research analyst by profession?
    Bumper
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  16. #30
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    LOL about the joke.

    If you had a video camera that has the night vision setting you could always say, "no problem I'll go shootem real quick for ya". Then hang up fast before they have a chance to say something. As long as you do video them, you are telling the truth so to speak. (Just kidding of course)

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